That’s all.
EDIT: Thank you all for detailing your experience with, and hatred for, this miserable product. Your display of solidarity is inspiring. Now, say it with me:
Fuck Microsoft
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What blows my mind is MS fucking bought Skype and somehow Teams still can’t handle video calls correctly. The actual fuck did they do with that acquisition?
Skype used to be peer to peer. Your call went from you to your friend (whomever). Microsoft decided that they couldn’t mitm that setup to scrape data; so, soon after they acquired Skype, they made all calls go through their servers.
Then they tried to make Skype make more money, since those servers aren’t free. Then they made teams and copied half the code into that, and cludged the rest to make it hold together.
In mean aside from the fact that almost all of that story is completely wrong, it’s a good story.
Source: Used to work at Microsoft and worked a lot with people from the Skype team.
What is the real story?
Skype made the call negotiation go through a central server (as does all systems nowadays). Skype was originally built on Kazaa technology to punch through firewalls without a central coordinator and that’s what Microsoft removed. They didn’t remove it to track the calling but to enable larger group calls on weaker devices which required video mixing on a central system rather than peer to peer call (where weaker peers couldn’t decode that many video streams). Calls up to 4 are still routed peer to peer if the backend can find routes through all firewalls.
Very very little of Skype was in the new Teams if anything. Teams was a rewrap of Communicator calling tech and was a response to Slack. The real time chatting had nothing to do with Skype either.
Skype lingered in Microsoft for a couple of reasons; Microsoft was crap at acquiring businesses back then, thinking that a hands off approach was best. It meant Skype never really became a proper Microsoft team - they still felt and acted like Skype employees and they didn’t manage to affect Redmond very well. Being acquired is super hard especially when almost all of the bigger business was in a different time zone and a different culture.
I was at a leadership development workshop with a tonne of Skype leaders about 10 years ago. They were still feeling incredibly frustrated and not understanding what was expected of them. It was a botched acquisition and the fault was on both sides.
So Teams calls of 1-4 people can send traffic direct peer-to-peer if they’re on the same LAN right?
Do all calls of 5+ users stay centrally hosted on the cloud? These are the kinds of things that MS should document and make easily available for IT and firewall admins. Finding info on Teams ports wasn’t easy in my experience.
i just hate everything about micro$oft nowadays to be honest… and i use and always will use linux mainly aswell cause of my hatred for windows in general
I love the open and evolving C# ecosystem.
All the AI and cloud fluff/craze being pushed to devs is a bit annoying, but outside of announcements it’s isolated and ignorable [for now]. I kept my enthusiasm during the cloud pushes, which were limited. But now, the AI and copilot pushing is annoying enough that I’m losing it. At least the enthusiasm. I feel like.
Everything else… Goes into the wrong direction and often is already obnoxious. Last time I installed windows for someone I was baffled it was almost impossible to install it with an offline account. Baffling on an operating system. Insane. Awful. Settings is still a mess. Task manager is getting worse. 11 got worse ui.
C# is such a crappy language.
You can’t even do a=b if they are classes, and you’re forced down the chosen road all the time. It’s like java all over.
Sure you can, it’s the same in C# as it would be in C++ if you did a=b, where a and b are both pointers.
You don’t want to copy the full data of a class around every time you use it, that would have extremely poor performance. If you do want that behaviour, use structs instead of classes. If you need to clone a class for whatever reason, you can do that too, but it’s not really something that you should need to do all that often.
I don’t think you should really jump in and call something crappy if you just don’t really know how to use it, personally!
In C++ you have the choice, the compiler makes the shallow copy (you know what that is right?) automatically if needed, or you can move around the pointer or a ref. Or, transform the shallow copy into a deep copy if you need that.
In c# you don’t even not have the choice, ints etc gets copied but classes aren’t. Where’s the logic behind that?
And as so many others you scramble to find some excuse that “you should probably not do that very often anyways” or some other bullshit.
I heard all that 20 years ago when it actually had some merit for people trying to run it on the old crappy hardware of the day, today it’s just moot.
Need speed or low memory usage? Learn to code in C/C++ for example. Heard Rust is great too.
C# is just an old wonky language.
/Rant off
Just for context, I’m an experienced software engineer with years of experience with both C++ and C#, as well as several others, including Rust. You can do shallow and deep copies in C# as well, it’s done extremely infrequently because it’s usually a bit of a code smell and it has some downsides - it’s inefficient both for performance and for memory.
In C# the assignment operator will copy the value if it’s a value type (structs and primitives) and copy the reference if it’s a reference type (classes). It does that because it’s a garbage collected language and it needs to track how memory is referenced and so on.
The whole debate about what languages are better is honestly a bit silly, IMO. C, C++, Python, C#, Javascript, Rust, they all serve their purpose, they have their strengths and weaknesses.
Now you are doing it again, you just say generic sensible stuff strawman way.
Like yeah I know about “the assignment operator” and it’s still shitty you can’t decide what it’s copying. You explaining how it works doesn’t make it better lol!
You are also blatantly wrong, there is absolutely no reason to not let you copy a class or pass an int as a ref “because of the garbage collector”, if you want to make a language having these functionalities there is nothing preventing it to be done correctly.
Also c# is an inefficient language to begin with, not letting the user do as he pleases is just dumbing things down, nothing to do with efficiency.
Also, we all have tons of experience (5 years xp isn’t experienced btw) no need to go get your diploma :-)
And another straw man, when did I say that a language is better than another? Never did I do that, but I guess you are not happy with all your arguments geting shot down.
C# is a crap language, if you are forced to use it like at work, or if you don’t want to learn another one, use it!
But you can’t polish a turd.
to not let you copy a class or pass an int as a ref
There’s a
refkeyword to pass references to ints.I find it hard to follow most of what you’re saying. Can you explain why passing an int var by ref does not satisfy your “pass an int as a ref”?
