Those people could also set up their own regional party to get their voices better heard in parliament like the bloc have successfully done, I’m not saying to “only vote.”
I’ve definitely seen anarchists describe frustration with electoral politics, especially when people limit their political engagement to simply voting once every so many years. However, I’ve never seen one advocate against voting.
Anarchists are generally aware that, despite elections not being the thing that will overthrow the bourgeoisie, some parties result in less suffering for oppressed peoples than others.
The anarchist argument is that voting somehow endorses the state and is consent to being governed. It’s not a very good argument, but it is an argument nevertheless.
That’s not an actual argument I’ve ever heard and I’m an anarchist myself, it usually goes more like:
Voting is a waste of time especially the more disenfranchised you are, mutual aid lasts longer and does more for people around you in the short term, in the long term you can build community get organized, and bargain for more than what simply voting can get you.
Personally that’s not a bad argument, see I’m living in Israel and my town’s going through gentrification, and the state I’m living under is fascist and the fascism is so normalized, not because of people like me refusing to vote, but because of liberals who were never so different from the fascists, constantly giving them ground, always bargaining for the bare minimum.
The only people actually getting anything done that is remotely positive are activists, like the people protesting to stop the genocide, and getting involved physically with sabotaging fascist efforts to stop humanitarian aid from getting into gaza.
Or at least that’s how it was months ago, i haven’t found it in me to listen to the news on quite a while, so what do i know.
I live in Illinois. If somehow the heavens and earth move such that Illinois turned red, then there would be absolutely zero chance it would be the tipping point in the presidential election. The vast majority of people in the US live in safe states.
And for the record, I do vote in down-ballot races, the ones that actually matter, but none of you care because it’s all about genuflecting before the leader of the blue tribe. Which, frankly, just gives me more reason to refuse to.
“Democracy” doesn’t need our help to be sabotaged, it’s falling apart on it’s own. Every time someone says that the voters have to change en masse to meet the policies of politicians rather than politicians having to respond to what their constituents want, they are the ones taking the axe to democracy. Why the hell would anyone care about upholding or defending a system that we have no say in? Somehow, insisting on popular demands and trying to turn the will of the people into policies that protect the rights of the vulnerable gets translated into “trying to sabotage democracy” equating Anarchists and Marxists alike with fascists.
Congratulations on four more years of a milktoast centrist liberal, is he going to acturally fix the problems? Or is he going to be like Biden and make the big talk of peace and prosperity while sending weapons to fund genocide?
Unlike his Conservative opponent, Carney has a resume of fixing problems more than talking. He has done a lot of talking during the campaign, as one should to get elected, now Canadians have a part in holding him to account as PM.
What has he done? All I know about the Canadian Liberals is that like the American liberals they have a long history of promises and a short history of keeping them.
His headline accomplishments are leading the Bank of Canada as governor, keeping Canada out of the worst of the 08 recession, then helped ease the fall of UK’s economy post-Brexit, then in his short 1st term as Prime Minister taking over from Trudeau, he managed to shut Trump up about the 51st state stuff for nearly a month, after just one call.
Fundamentally Trump would not have gotten anywhere without decades of milqtoast ineffective liberals and corrupt milquetoast politicans, the Democrats are at direct fault for this. They built the conditions where people demanded something new and they gave them more of the same. They fought the left viciously while giving up the fight against fascism.
Those anarchists, tankies, fascists and authoritarians who claim this are just trying to sabotage democracy.
Or it’s people who feel disenfranchised.
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Not voting makes it easier for politicians to ignore them.
If they feel disenfranchised, they are probably already ignored.
That’s a self fulfilling prophecy.
Or a pat answer to give to disenfranchised people you don’t want represented. “If we’re ignoring you it’s because you’re not involved enough!”
Those people could also set up their own regional party to get their voices better heard in parliament like the bloc have successfully done, I’m not saying to “only vote.”
There’s always some new criterion for not being ignored.
This conversation is not productive, stop being self defeatist and start working on solutions.
Spot the odd one out!
I’ve definitely seen anarchists describe frustration with electoral politics, especially when people limit their political engagement to simply voting once every so many years. However, I’ve never seen one advocate against voting.
Anarchists are generally aware that, despite elections not being the thing that will overthrow the bourgeoisie, some parties result in less suffering for oppressed peoples than others.
There’s a long history of anarchists who oppose voting
https://libcom.org/article/why-anarchists-dont-vote-elisee-reclus
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/aotearoa-workers-solidarity-movement-why-we-don-t-vote
https://apps.lib.umich.edu/online-exhibits/exhibits/show/debatedemocracy/anarchism---anti-voting
The anarchist argument is that voting somehow endorses the state and is consent to being governed. It’s not a very good argument, but it is an argument nevertheless.
That’s not an actual argument I’ve ever heard and I’m an anarchist myself, it usually goes more like:
Voting is a waste of time especially the more disenfranchised you are, mutual aid lasts longer and does more for people around you in the short term, in the long term you can build community get organized, and bargain for more than what simply voting can get you.
Personally that’s not a bad argument, see I’m living in Israel and my town’s going through gentrification, and the state I’m living under is fascist and the fascism is so normalized, not because of people like me refusing to vote, but because of liberals who were never so different from the fascists, constantly giving them ground, always bargaining for the bare minimum.
The only people actually getting anything done that is remotely positive are activists, like the people protesting to stop the genocide, and getting involved physically with sabotaging fascist efforts to stop humanitarian aid from getting into gaza.
Or at least that’s how it was months ago, i haven’t found it in me to listen to the news on quite a while, so what do i know.
Libs will do anything they can to avoid understanding anti-electoralism
I live in Illinois. If somehow the heavens and earth move such that Illinois turned red, then there would be absolutely zero chance it would be the tipping point in the presidential election. The vast majority of people in the US live in safe states.
And for the record, I do vote in down-ballot races, the ones that actually matter, but none of you care because it’s all about genuflecting before the leader of the blue tribe. Which, frankly, just gives me more reason to refuse to.
“Democracy” doesn’t need our help to be sabotaged, it’s falling apart on it’s own. Every time someone says that the voters have to change en masse to meet the policies of politicians rather than politicians having to respond to what their constituents want, they are the ones taking the axe to democracy. Why the hell would anyone care about upholding or defending a system that we have no say in? Somehow, insisting on popular demands and trying to turn the will of the people into policies that protect the rights of the vulnerable gets translated into “trying to sabotage democracy” equating Anarchists and Marxists alike with fascists.
Congratulations on four more years of a milktoast centrist liberal, is he going to acturally fix the problems? Or is he going to be like Biden and make the big talk of peace and prosperity while sending weapons to fund genocide?
Unlike his Conservative opponent, Carney has a resume of fixing problems more than talking. He has done a lot of talking during the campaign, as one should to get elected, now Canadians have a part in holding him to account as PM.
What has he done? All I know about the Canadian Liberals is that like the American liberals they have a long history of promises and a short history of keeping them.
His headline accomplishments are leading the Bank of Canada as governor, keeping Canada out of the worst of the 08 recession, then helped ease the fall of UK’s economy post-Brexit, then in his short 1st term as Prime Minister taking over from Trudeau, he managed to shut Trump up about the 51st state stuff for nearly a month, after just one call.
FYI the word you’re so desperate to use is milquetoast, not milktoast.
I have the feeling that you would be inclined to deny the distinction between the Biden presidency and the trump presidency that followed it.
Fundamentally Trump would not have gotten anywhere without decades of milqtoast ineffective liberals and corrupt milquetoast politicans, the Democrats are at direct fault for this. They built the conditions where people demanded something new and they gave them more of the same. They fought the left viciously while giving up the fight against fascism.