English version below.
Hallo zusammen,
in den letzten Tagen gab es einige Anschuldigungen sowohl gegen die Moderatoren von [email protected] als auch gegen unser Adminteam Nazis oder Zionisten zu sein, vorrangig aufgrund des Umgangs mit Kritik an Israel.
Wir weisen diese Anschuldigungen hiermit ausdrücklich zurück und werden derartige Anschuldigungen nicht tolerieren. Insbesondere sind Personen die Andere derart beschuldigen, ohne dass es dafür konkrete objektive Anlässe gibt, auf feddit.org nicht willkommen. Dies ist bereits von unserer Regel zu respektvollem Umgang gedeckt, welcher hier in keinster Weise erbracht wird.
Zunächst einmal möchten wir daran erinnern, dass die Nutzung von feddit.org mit den Rechten und Gesetzen der DACH-Region vereinbar sein muss. Dies ist explizit in unseren Instanzregeln erwähnt, und beinhaltet Deutschland (D), Österreich (A), und Schweiz (CH). Die Infrastruktur von feddit.org wird von der Fediverse Foundation, einem gemeinnützigen Verein in Österreich betreut. Unser Adminteam, welches sich um die Instanzweite Moderation, Organisation, sowie Mitbetreuung der Infrastruktur von feddit.org kümmert ist in Deutschland ansässig. Da wir allgemein den deutschsprachigen Raum als primäre Zielgruppe haben versuchen wir auch entsprechend die Gesetze der Schweiz zu berücksichtigen.
Auch wenn wir nicht aktiv nach Gesetzesverstößen suchen müssen, ist es zumindest in einigen Fällen nötig nach Kenntnisnahme einzugreifen. Dies beinhaltet z.B. wenn Moderatoren oder Admins Meldungen zu Posts oder Kommentaren erhalten, aber auch wenn derartige Inhalte zufällig entdeckt werden, wenn man auf Lemmy unterwegs ist.
https://www.wko.at/internetrecht/providerhaftung
Beim „Hosting“ haftet der Diensteanbieter beschränkt, sofern der Anbieter
- keine tatsächliche Kenntnis von konkreten rechtswidrigen Tätigkeiten oder Inhalten hat und sich in Bezug auf Schadenersatzansprüche auch keiner Tatsachen oder Umstände bewusst ist, aus denen die rechtswidrige Tätigkeit oder Inhalte offensichtlich hervorgehen, und
- sobald er diese Kenntnis oder dieses Bewusstsein erlangt, zügig tätig wird, um den Zugang zu den rechtswidrigen Inhalten zu sperren oder diese zu entfernen.
Relevante Straftatbestände sind unter anderem Folgende:
Rechtliche Instrumente gegen die Verbreitung von antisemitischen oder terroristische Handlungen gutheißenden Äußerungen, des Deutschen Bundestages (Deutschland)
Auszug
- Aus 2.1.1 Strafbares Billigen von Straftaten
“Nach § 140 Nr. 2 StGB macht sich strafbar, wer bestimmte, in den §§ 140, 138 und 126 StGB aufgelistete Arten von rechtswidrigen Taten in einer Weise, die geeignet ist, den öffentlichen Frieden zu stören, öffentlich billigt. Als solche Bezugstaten kommen unter anderem in Betracht Mord(§ 211 StGB), Totschlag (§ 212 StGB), Völkermord (§ 6 VStGB), Verbrechen gegen die Menschlichkeit (§ 7 VStGB), Kriegsverbrechen (§§ 8, 9, 10, 11 oder 12 VStGB) und Aggression (§ 13 VStGB), aber auch verschiedene gegen die sexuelle Selbstbestimmung oder die persönliche Freiheit gerichtete Straftaten…”
- Aus 2.1.2 Volksverhetzung
“Gemäß § 130 Absatz 1 StGB macht sich strafbar, wer in einer Weise, die geeignet ist, den öffentlichen Frieden zu stören, 1. gegen eine nationale, rassische, religiöse oder durch ihre ethnische Herkunft bestimmte Gruppe, gegen Teile der Bevölkerung oder gegen einen Einzelnen wegen dessen Zugehörigkeit zu einer vorbezeichneten Gruppe oder zu einem Teil der Bevölkerung zum Hass aufstachelt, zu Gewalt- oder Willkürmaßnahmen auffordert oder 2. die Menschenwürde anderer dadurch angreift, dass er eine vorbezeichnete Gruppe, Teile der Bevölkerung oder einen Einzelnen wegen dessen Zugehörigkeit zu einer vorbezeichneten Gruppe oder zu einem Teil der Bevölkerung beschimpft, böswillig verächtlich macht oder verleumdet”(…)“1. einen Inhalt (§ 11 Absatz 3) verbreitet oder der Öffentlichkeit zugänglich macht oder einer Person unter achtzehn Jahren einen Inhalt (§ 11 Absatz 3) anbietet, überlässt oder zugänglich macht, der a) zum Hass gegen eine in Absatz 1 Nummer 1 bezeichnete Gruppe, gegen Teile der Bevölkerung oder gegen einen Einzelnen wegen dessen Zugehörigkeit zu einer in Absatz 1 Nummer 1 bezeichneten Gruppe oder zu einem Teil der Bevölkerung aufstachelt, b) zu Gewalt- oder Willkürmaßnahmen gegen in Buchstabe a genannte Personen oder Personenmehrheiten auffordert oder c) die Menschenwürde von in Buchstabe a genannten Personen oder Personenmehrheiten dadurch angreift, dass diese beschimpft, böswillig verächtlich gemacht oder verleumdet werden oder 2. einen in Nummer 1 Buchstabe a bis c bezeichneten Inhalt (§ 11 Absatz 3) herstellt, bezieht, liefert, vorrätig hält, anbietet, bewirbt oder es unternimmt, diesen ein- oder auszuführen, um ihn im Sinne der Nummer 1 zu verwenden oder einer anderen Person eine solche Verwendung zu ermöglichen.”
- Aus 2.1.3 Völkerrechtsverbrechenbezogene Volksverhetzung
“Zum Dezember 2022 wurde der neue Straftatbestand der völkerrechtsverbrechenbezogenen Volksverhetzung in § 130 Absatz 5 StGB eingeführt. Hiernach ist es strafbar, eine Handlung der in den §§ 6 bis 12 VStGB bezeichneten Art gegen eine der in § 130 Absatz 1 Nr. 1 StGB bezeichneten Personenmehrheiten öffentlich in einer Weise zu billigen, die geeignet ist, zu Hass oder Gewalt gegen eine solche Personenmehrheit aufzustacheln und den öffentlichen Frieden zu stören…”
- Aus 2.1.4 Bildung und Unterstützung terroristischer Vereinigungen
“Nach § 129a Absatz 1 StGB macht sich wegen der Bildung terroristischer Vereinigungen strafbar, „(1) Wer eine Vereinigung (§ 129 Absatz 2) gründet, deren Zwecke oder deren Tätigkeit darauf gerichtet sind 1. Mord (§ 211) oder Totschlag (§ 212) oder Völkermord (§ 6 des Völkerstrafgesetzbuches) oder Verbrechen gegen die Menschlichkeit (§ 7 des Völkerstrafgesetzbuches) oder Kriegsverbrechen (§§ 8, 9, 10, 11 oder § 12 des Völkerstrafgesetzbuches) oder 2. Straftaten gegen die persönliche Freiheit in den Fällen des § 239a oder des § 239b(…) zu begehen, oder wer sich an einer solchen Vereinigung als Mitglied beteiligt”
- Aus 2.1.5 Verbreiten von Propagandamitteln terroristischer Organisationen und Verwenden von deren Kennzeichen
“Unter Strafe steht es schließlich auch, Propagandamittel terroristischer Organisationen zu verbreiten und deren Kennzeichen zu verwenden (§§ 86, 86a StGB).”
§ 130 Volksverhetzung (Deutschland)
Auszug
(3) …, wer eine unter der Herrschaft des Nationalsozialismus begangene Handlung der in § 6 Abs. 1 des Völkerstrafgesetzbuches bezeichneten Art in einer Weise, die geeignet ist, den öffentlichen Frieden zu stören, öffentlich oder in einer Versammlung billigt, leugnet oder verharmlost. (4) …, wer öffentlich oder in einer Versammlung den öffentlichen Frieden in einer die Würde der Opfer verletzenden Weise dadurch stört, dass er die nationalsozialistische Gewalt- und Willkürherrschaft billigt, verherrlicht oder rechtfertigt."
Einige weiterführende Links:
- Öffentliches Billigen oder Gutheißen von Straftaten (Deutschland)
- Hass und Hetze im Strafrecht (Deutschland)
- Leitfaden zur Verfolgung antisemitischer Straftaten
- Aktuelle Beispiele von Antisemitismus
- https://www.bundeskanzleramt.gv.at/kampagne-gegen-antisemitismus/fragen-und-antworten/antisemitismus-im-internet-moegliche-rechtliche-konsequenzen/moegliche-strafrechtliche-folgen.html (Österreich)
Wir stehen in diesem Fall vollständig hinter den Moderatoren von [email protected], bei rechtlichen Unsicherheiten lieber zu viel als zu wenig zu entfernen.
Auslöser für die aktuelle Debatte ist u.a. dieser Post, welcher der Entfernung eines Kommentars folgte, für einen Vergleich des Nationalsozialismus mit der aktuellen Situation in Israel, was unserem Verständnis nach als Verharmlosung des Nationalsozialismus betrachtet werden kann. Derartige Aussagen können u.a. zu Haftstrafen führen. In dem Post wurde u.a. behauptet, dass die Entfernung zionistische Hintergründe hätte, eine Anschuldigung die grundsätzlich von entsprechenden Nachweisen unterstützt sein sollte, und vor welcher ausgeschlossen werden sollte, dass es alternative Erklärungen gibt.
Wir werden nicht jeden Kommentar der Ansatzweise in die Richtung geht entfernen, jedoch behalten wir uns vor Personen die unsere Instanz, Admins, Moderatoren, oder andere Nutzer ohne stichhaltige Argumente als Nazis oder Zionisten beschuldigen, insbesondere wenn dies mehr als ein vereinzelter Kommentar ist, permanent von feddit.org auszuzschließen.
Hierzu gehören auch Inhalte wie dieser Post von @[email protected], welcher kurz davor bereits aufgrund von vielfachen Aufrufen zu Gewalt und Terror von unserer Instanz gebannt wurde. Diese Person scheint zudem auch die Instanz quokk.au zu administrieren, oder zumindest gute Beziehungen zum Admin zu haben, da wir in nahem zeitlichen Zusammenhang eine Zensur auf Fediseer von quokk.au erhalten haben, in welcher wir als Zionisten und Nazis beschuldigt werden, und @[email protected] in den Raum gestellt hat quokk.au von uns zu deföderieren (Archiv).
Falls diese Zensur von quokk.au nicht zeitnah zurückgenommen werden sollte werden wir quokk.au von unserer Seite für diese anhaltslosen und unwahren Anschuldigungen deföderieren. quokk.au ist eine relativ kleine Instanz mit nur wenigen lokalen Nutzern, welche versucht hat eine alternative Newscommunity aufzubauen, die nicht auf einer der “großen” Instanzen liegt. Leider scheint auch diese Community eine schlechte Alternative zu sein, wenn dies der reguläre Umgang des dortigen Admins ist.
Hello all,
in the last few days there have been some accusations against the moderators of [email protected] as well as against our admin team of being Nazis or Zionists, mainly because of the way of dealing with criticism of Israel.
We explicitly reject these accusations and will not tolerate such accusations. In particular, people who accuse others in this way without any concrete objective reason are not welcome on feddit.org. This is already covered by our rule of respectful interaction.
First of all, we would like to remind you, that the use of feddit.org must be compliant with the rights and regulations of the DACH region. This is explicitly mentioned in our instance rules, and includes Germany (D), Austria (A) and Switzerland (CH). The infrastructure of feddit.org is maintaind by the Fediverse Foundation, a non-profit association in Austria. Our Admin team, which takes care of the instance wide moderation, organization and supporting infrastructure operations, is based in Germany. Since we primarily target the German speaking coutries, we also try to comply with laws and regulations of Switzerland.
Even if we do not have to actively search for violations of the law, it is necessary to intervene after becoming aware of them. This includes, for example when moderators or admins receive messages about posts or comments, but also when such content is discovered by chance when browsing Lemmy.
https://www.wko.at/internetrecht/providerhaftung
In the case of “hosting”, the service provider has limited liability if the provider
- has no actual knowledge of specific unlawful activities or content and is not aware of any facts or circumstances with regard to claims for damages from which the unlawful activity or content is obvious, and
- as soon as it obtains this knowledge or awareness, takes swift action to block access to the illegal content or to remove it.
Relevant criminal offenses include the following:
Legal instruments against the dissemination of anti-Semitic statements or statements condoning terrorist acts of the German Parliament (German)
Excerpt, unofficial translation
Translated through deepl.com. May not be fully accurate from a legal perspective.
- From 2.1.1 Criminal condoning of criminal acts
According to Section 140 No. 2 StGB, anyone who publicly condones certain types of unlawful acts listed in Sections 140, 138 and 126 StGB in a manner that is likely to disturb the public peace is liable to prosecution. Such related offenses include murder (§ 211 StGB), manslaughter (§ 212 StGB), genocide (§ 6 VStGB), crimes against humanity (§ 7 VStGB), war crimes (§§ 8, 9, 10, 11 or 12 VStGB) and aggression (§ 13 VStGB), but also various offenses directed against sexual self-determination or personal freedom…”
- From 2.1.2 Incitement to hatred
Pursuant to Section 130(1) StGB, anyone who, in a manner likely to disturb the public peace, 1. incites hatred against a national, racial, religious or ethnic group, against parts of the population or against an individual because of their membership of a designated group or part of the population, incites violence or arbitrary measures or 2. attacks the human dignity of others by insulting, maliciously denigrating or defaming a designated group, parts of the population or an individual because of their membership of a designated group or part of the population"(…)”1. distributes or makes available to the public any content (Section 11(3)) or offers, provides or makes available to a person under the age of eighteen any content (Section 11(3)) that a) incites hatred against a group referred to in subsection 1(1), against sections of the population or against an individual because of his or her membership of a group referred to in subsection 1(1) or of a section of the population, b) incites violence or arbitrary measures against persons or groups of persons referred to in letter a), or c) attacks the human dignity of persons or groups of persons referred to in letter a) by insulting, maliciously denigrating or defaming them, or 2. produces, obtains, supplies, keeps in stock, offers, advertises or undertakes to import or export content referred to in number 1 letters a to c (§ 11 paragraph 3) in order to use it in the sense of number 1 or to enable another person to make such use of it.”
- From 2.1.3 Incitement to hatred related to crimes under international law
"As of December 2022, the new criminal offense of incitement to hatred related to a crime under international law was introduced in Section 130 (5) StGB. According to this, it is a criminal offense to publicly condone an act of the type specified in Sections 6 to 12 of the German Criminal Code against one of the majorities of persons specified in Section 130 (1) No. 1 of the German Criminal Code in a manner that is likely to incite hatred or violence against such a majority of persons and to disturb public peace…”
- From 2.1.4 Formation and support of terrorist organizations
Pursuant to Section 129a(1) StGB, “(1) Whoever establishes an association (Section 129(2)) whose purposes or whose activities are directed towards 1. murder (§ 211) or manslaughter (§ 212) or genocide (§ 6 of the International Criminal Code) or crimes against humanity (§ 7 of the International Criminal Code) or war crimes (§§ 8, 9, 10, 11 or § 12 of the International Criminal Code) or 2. offenses against personal freedom in the cases of § 239a or § 239b (…), or whoever participates in such an association as a member ”
- From 2.1.5 Disseminating propaganda material of terrorist organizations and using their emblems
"Finally, it is also a punishable offence to disseminate propaganda material of terrorist organizations and to use their emblems (Sections 86, 86a StGB).”
Section 130 Incitement of masses
Excerpt, unofficial translation
Translated through deepl.com. May not be fully accurate from a legal perspective.
(3) Whoever publicly or in a meeting approves of, denies or downplays an act committed under the rule of National Socialism of the kind indicated in section 6 (1) of the Code of Crimes against International Law in a manner suited to causing a disturbance of the public peace incurs a penalty of imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years or a fine.
(4) Whoever publicly or in a meeting disturbs the public peace in a manner which violates the dignity of the victims by approving of, glorifying or justifying National Socialist tyranny and arbitrary rule incurs a penalty of imprisonment for a term not exceeding three years or a fine.
Some further links, mostly in German:
- Öffentliches Billigen oder Gutheißen von Straftaten (Deutschland)
- Hass und Hetze im Strafrecht (Deutschland)
- Leitfaden zur Verfolgung antisemitischer Straftaten
- Working definition of antisemitism
- https://www.bundeskanzleramt.gv.at/kampagne-gegen-antisemitismus/fragen-und-antworten/antisemitismus-im-internet-moegliche-rechtliche-konsequenzen/moegliche-strafrechtliche-folgen.html (Österreich)
In this instance, we fully support the moderators of [email protected] to potentially remove too much rather than too little in case of legal uncertainties.
One of the triggers for the current debate is this post, which followed the removal of a comment comparing National Socialism with the current situation in Israel, which can be considered a trivialization of National Socialism. Such statements can, among other things, lead to imprisonment. Among other things, the post claimed that the removal had a Zionist motive, an accusation that should always be supported by appropriate evidence and prior to which it should be ruled out that there are alternative explanations.
We will not be removing every comment that goes even remotely in this direction, but we reserve the right to permanently ban users from feddit.org who make unfounded accusations, such as labeling our instance, admins, moderators, or other users as Nazis or Zionists, without substantial supporting arguments. This is especially the case when this is recurring behavior and not an isolated incident.
This includes content such as this post by @[email protected], who was banned from our instance shortly before that post due to multiple incitements of violence and terrorism. This person also seems to be the admin of the instance quokk.au, or at least to have good relations to the admin, since we received a censure on Fediseer from quokk.au around the same time, in which we are being accused of being Zionists and Nazis, and @[email protected] has suggested to defederate quokk.au from us (archive).
If this censure by quokk.au is not withdrawn in a timely manner, we will defederate quokk.au from our side for these unsubstantiated and untrue accusations. quokk.au is a relatively small instance with only a few local users, which tried to build an alternative news community that is not on one of the “big” instances. Unfortunately, this community also seems to be a poor alternative if this is how their admin typically acts.
Are you all not conflating anti-Zionism with antisemitism? The two are not the same. This is misguided at best, and borderline tacit support Zionism at worst. To be clear, I am not accusing anyone on this instance of following Nazism, though the appearance of support for the Zionists can seemingly be an argument made.
Accusing (some) users of engaging in antisemitism, when in reality they are railing against a settler colonialist society engaging in genocide, is certainly a bad look.
At the end of the day, the instance is of course yours to moderate as you see fit. I’ll just block the instance on my end, as I do not support Zionism in the slightest.
🤷🏻♀️
Accusing (some) users of engaging in antisemitism, when in reality they are railing against a settler colonialist society engaging in genocide, is certainly a bad look.
voicing criticism, mentioning the crimes israeli settlers commit or discussing the genocide in gaza are not the problem.
the problem is equating the State Israel with the NS-Regime which is at least thin ice from a legal perspective, (see holocaust denial or relativation) and rubs me the wrong way on a personal level.
dont go around claiming that the goverment of israel are as bad as the nazis and don’t demand the destruction of the state of israel and you’ll be able to discuss the war on this instance without your comments beeing deleted or beeing banned. it is that easy.
As a Jewish person, and I know there’s not a lot of us on Lemmy, I want to sincerely thank you for standing up, and enforcing your rules, I wish a much bigger amount of instances would adopt something similar, even tho I know it’s not going to happen. It’s very sad how many people use the existence of the sole Jewish state for antisemitism and how widely accepted are calls for a genocide of Jewish Israelis. I don’t comment about Israel-related stuff usually, but I couldn’t go by there.
how many people use the existence of the sole Jewish state for antisemitism and how widely accepted are calls for a genocide of Jewish Israelis.
If someone claims something happened on the fediverse without providing a link, they’re lying.
Where are you seeing “calls for a genocide of Jewish Israelis?” Which instance? Because I’ve never seen that, and it goes against the rules of every community and would be removed immediately. Because you made it up.
By the way, just so y’all know, downvotes are not a substitute for evidence. Every downvote this comment gets is just one more person who was 100% incapable of providing a shred of evidence of this anywhere.
As a c/germany mod it had several cases of that. One non-germany case: https://feddit.org/post/12370463/6604714
E2: Comment by a user who also wrote things like this.
E1: So: You’re wrong. Just because you don’t see those cases, they don’t have to not exist. And they sometimes don’t get removed, this one probably because no one reported it, since everyone (myself included) thought other people would report it.
E2: Comment by a user who also wrote things like this.
Double commenting to respond to this edit.
Hilarious that you’re trying to twist that into being pro-Palestine. The idea of sending pro-Palestine protesters to Gaza is a common right-wing/Zionist talking point. For example, in 2024, a bill called “The Antisemitism Community Service Act” was proposed in the US House of Representatives that would sentence people arrested at pro-Palestine protests to 6 months of community service in Gaza. Zionists, such as this user, love to try to delegitimize critics of Israel by telling them to go to Gaza themselves if they care so much.
You misread the comment, they’re on your side.
Critism of the Gaza war/genocide, governmental issues etc are allowed I think. You just can’t say Israel should/must not exist (when you agree with that, you are a “Zionist”) or all Jews should be removed/killed/dead (antisemitism), things like that. Both are illegal under German law. Most of your instance and some other instances and users are against feddit.org for this reason.
What they’re saying is that the reason people are upset with feddit.org’s moderation policy is that those people want to say stuff like “kill all Jews.” They seem to agree with the moderation policy, saying “criticism of the government is allowed.” Nothing in their comment suggests that they’re criticizing the policy on the basis that they want to say, “Kill all Jews,” all they’re doing is describing (and defending) your policy.
Try again.
If you read the thread, you would have seen that it actually is the correct interpretation of this comment. Comment-OP also didn’t care to correct me, because they hadn’t anything to correct. And I will not start discussing about it just because you don’t want to be wrong on something.
Lol. It’s not that “I don’t want to be wrong on something,” it’s just that I am, objectively, not wrong.
Let’s look into this user a bit more to see if that sheds any light on which interpretation is correct, shall we? Did you know that they were banned from db0 for saying that the situation in Gaza is not a genocide? Huh! Weird that they would say that if they’re so anti-Israel, don’t you think?
Here is another exchange that proves they’re on your side. In response to someone criticizing feddit’s policy by saying, “Germany not be a fucking Nazi challenge impossible,” they replied, “They’re Nazi by not questioning the statehood of Israel? The internet was a mistake.”
As for the context of the thread, it was a different user who said, “Memes from a Zionist instance are never on my mind.” Then someone said, “Care to elaborate,” and this user chimed in to offer their own perspective on the controversy, which was a supportive, Zionist perspective, claiming that the only things feddit bans are things like “Kill all Jews,” and that anyone who’s upset about it is only upset because they can’t say that.
I don’t know why they didn’t reply to clear up the misunderstanding. I’m not them.
This is so ridiculous, the only, singular example you can come up with is attacking a guy who’s on your side, literally defending your instance’s policy. What a joke! Talk about a persecution complex.
And then you say you “don’t want to discuss it,” because you know your position is not defensible.
Most of your instance and some other instances and users are against feddit.org for this reason.
This makes it abundantly clear that they are describing other people’s positions and not their own.
E: It’s amazing how many people on here are downvoting me and interpreting the user’s statements as them being a raging antisemite, and yet, somehow, they are not banned from feddit. I think it would be very funny for feddit to ban someone who’s been going around defending their moderation policy, so please, by all means, tell your mods to ban them! I’ll make a post about it so that everyone around the fediverse who can read can all laugh at you.
Well then, time to block your instance.
Elad Barashi, who has worked in the Israeli entertainment industry for several years, sparked outrage after posting on X: “Good morning, let there be a Shoa (Holocaust) in Gaza.”
In another post, he wrote, “I can’t understand the people here in the State of Israel who don’t want to fill Gaza with gas showers… or train cars… and finish this story! Let there be a Holocaust in Gaza.”
Zionazis know that they’re protected by these idiotic, fascist laws, which is why they feel free to make these sorts of statements. They can directly invoke the Holocaust to talk about what they want happening in Gaza because they know anyone who mentions their comments will be denounced as an “antisemite.”
To quote Aaron Bushnell:
Many of us like to ask ourselves, ‘What would I do if I was alive during slavery? Or the Jim Crow South? Or apartheid? What would I do if my country was committing genocide?’ The answer is, you’re doing it. Right now.
Turns out what this instance would do is to protect the perpetrators from criticism.
Bro but it’s illegal 😭 if you don’t follow nazi law to oppose the Nazis how are you any better?
Fucking cowards
It seems you haven’t understood this post.
defederate [because] we [admins?] are being accused of being Zionists and Nazis
I’m not sure I follow. Someone calls you names and your response isn’t to block them and ignore, but force all the instance users to block them too?
Does that seems like proportional, respectful to feddit.org userbase, response to you?
This comments section really putting the Fed in feddit.
Germany is proof that the Nuremberg trials weren’t nearly thorough enough, and the lesson will have to be applied when Netanyahu, Gallant, and the whole apartheid state apparatus faces the consequences of their genocide.
Thankfully, we have better instances like world, ml, etc that don’t moderate content that states the obvious lol.
Imaging simping for the poorly written speech laws of any country in the age of the internet where you can host your own instance on a cheapo VPS in whatever region you like.
Damn. (Apparently not actually) ex-nazis supporting neo-nazis. Who could have seen this coming?
Zionism is a colonial project, is the ideological underpinning for the genocide that Israel is committing in Gaza, and is the underpinning for the apartheid Israel maintains. You know who also committed a genocide? The nazis! So in that, Israel and the nazis are very similar. Personally I would say that this negates the right to exist for the state of Israel in its current form, but I guess that depends entirely on whether you view Palestinians as human or not.
You are either ignorant or do the same what you accuse others of. There is no realistic way the state of Israel stops to exist without a lot of bloodshed but apparently you consider the life of some people to be worth less than others?
Sorry, no. Apartheid was ended before and it can be ended again. We choose not to.
The life of the Nazis was very much worth less than the lives of Jewish people. The life of US soldiers was worth less than that of Vietnamese civilians.
This is no different. Genocide is genocide, you’re not the first ones to claim the people being victimized are the real aggressors and the oppressors are being unfairly persecuted.
You are aware that most Israelis are civilians, right?
Palestinians are civilians, and that doesn’t stop them from being bombarded, starved and tortured.
Israelis have compulsory military service and a large amount of reservists. Anyone occupying STOLEN LAND is an aggressor and by international law is a fair target. Nazis also moved civilians to the places they occupied after they kicked out the original owners, and I don’t give a single shit what happened to them when the resistance went back in there.
And this genocidal shit is why I’m not giving anti-Zionists the benefit of the doubt. Bye.
Oh no, the polish genocided the poor Nazis when they kicked them out of the land they just stole 😭 the moral thing to do is to get all sad and let literal genocidaires do whatever they want without reply
It is one thing to kick out civilians who were relocated into occupied land, it is a whole different matter to call them a fair target and ‘not give a shit about what happens to them’ after having taken the land back just because the were obligated to serve in the military before.
Wow, my man. You are quick to decide how much a life is worth. Funny how you sound like a fucking Nazi. A few decades ago, you could have been one of the „finest“ of the SS.
Right, Nazis, famous for saying the lives of the powerful oppressors are worth less than those of their victims 🙄
“Death to the master race” -Nazis, apparently
Exactly this. Who do you think was framed by the Nazis as this powerful elite, deciding the fate of the world and ultimately destroying the german people?
It is always the same playbook with those motherfuckers. Demonize the „enemy“ by telling how almighty and dangerous they are, while at the same time diminishing them, making them less than human, their lifes worth less. Same shit happening in the US at the moment. Same shit happening in the middle east.
This is either stupid and ignorant or knowingly disingenuous.
Who do you think was framed by the Nazis as this powerful elite, deciding the fate of the world
Themselves, of course. The “master race.” Only, they argued, because white people were so magnanimous, they had allowed themselves to be decived into granting “lesser” races power. Their solution was to reject any sympathy for the poor and marginalized, to denounce them as “weak,” and to have the “strong” rule, mercilessly and unapologetically.
Now, you’re trying to equate someone sticking up for the poor and marginalized with that, the exact opposite. And, for some reason, the people here hypocritically seem to have no problem with this, despite the fact that they describe other comparisons to the Nazis as “downplaying their atrocities.” It’s completely absurd.
The far-right nowadays is mostly supportive of Israel over the Palestinians, because their primary beliefs is that the strong should rule the weak mercilessly and unapologetically, as Israel does. It’s the left, those committed to equality who are standing up calling for equal rights, or at the very least, mercy towards the oppressed.
Of course the Nazis saw themselves as the elite of the world, while at the same time dehumanizing the jewish population and depicting them as this powerful elite that took a big part, for example, in losing WW1. Look up the „Dolchstoßlüge“ or stab-in-the-back lie. Nobody says, fascist have a coherent world view. They love to play the strong man and the victim at the same time.
The person you are defending here is telling us, that jewish lives are worth less and (down below) that every Jew ist a „fair target“. They are not outright calling for the death of all Israeli Jews here, because they at least would be banned here and could be prosecuted under criminal law, but they are very very strongly implying exactly that. They are, ironically enough, at the same time comparing Israelis (you know, only the one kind, that has compulsatory miltary service), with the Nazis, while at the same time spreading extermination fantasies. Are you insane to step on their side?
You write it, the far-right loves the idea, that the strong should rule the weak. It stems from the believe, that people are fundamentally unequal. The left has the believe, that all people have the same worth. You don’t get to call yourself a leftist and speak about more ore less worthy lives, like OP.
The situation in the Middle East is a fucking mess and there is no simple solution. I strongly believe, that every decent person should work to stop the war crimes, that Israel is committing at the moment. But apart from that, there is no clear good and evil.
Zionism is predicated on “ethic cleansing” and genocide, in exactly the same way that Lebensraum or Manifest Destiny were. You should find mods subject to different jurisdictions, rather than enforce such unjust muzzling.
This dicsussion is far beyond ridiculous.
While we are playing “who’s the better leftist?”, accusing each other of Nazism, Zionism, Antisemitism and what not, talking about blocking and defederating each other for having slightly different opinions, the far right is uniting globally and getting stronger by the hour.
They are enjoying every second of it. The war in Gaza also plays in their hands when it comes to promoting antisemitism and/or anti-islam propaganda.
But to wrap this up:
- The genocide in Gaza is undeniable
- People from Palestine and Israel deserve to live in peace
- Murder is bad, mkay?
- Calling all german people Nazis is nothing short of racism, period
- Accusing a whole instance of supporting genocide is a right-wing-minded-generalisation
The united far right are training in military camps and preparing to overthrow democracy and we are here losing our shit over one deleted comment. We are collectively doomed.
https://mo-husseini.medium.com/50-completely-true-things-1ce672087b28
Fuck Hamas, Fuck the current Israeli government, Fuck the war criminal Netanjahu and his facist friend Trump, Fuck all the wars of aggression against Israel in the last decades, Fuck the current Iranian dictatorship which btw. supports terror organizations like Hamas, Fuck Hisbollah, Fuck Taliban, Fuck terror organizations in general.
The only ones suffering are the people of Middle East who would suffer less with a democratic two state solution.
It’s always civilians who are suffering, it’s so infuriating and frustrating
