I think there are so many readings of the Lord of the Rings that it is possible to make it say whatever you want by picking and choosing quotes.
Its a story about an evil race of people invading from the east. Its also about how the people of the world must move past racial prejudice to defeat evil.
You can take whatever message you want from it. When I read it recently I found it funny how many characters were just saying “the West has fallen, billions must die”
There are orientalist elements but the Easterlings and Haradrim are not anymore evil than anyone else. Literally the most powerful, noble, specially God-blessed race of the most Western Men did the same thing and followed Sauron only to build shrines to Morgoth and invade Aman, the land of the Gods. Arguably far more evil shit can be attributed to Numenoreans and their descendants than Easterlings or Haradrim.
As /u/stillhauntingeurope mentioned in that thread, Easterlings and Haradrim initially allied themselves with Sauron because of their experiences of colonization at the hands of the ‘Men of the West’.
People go on about the “men of the West” thing without looking deeper. It is explicit in the text that the Numenoreans corrupted themselves by their practice of colonialism and all the evils that come with it.
And then I’ve seen people decry the portrayal of Easterners as evil or savages or whatever, but again, they’re ignoring the text when they do so. Even without Sam’s thoughts on the dead Haradrim, it’s fairly explicit they serve Sauron not due to some innate evil, but because of their history with the Numenoreans (who would demand tribute, attack, and enslave them) and Sauron manipulating and outright coercing them.
Considering its the same numenoreans who colonized the south and east and what we see in lord of the rings is partially blowback and partially being ruled by dudes who descendants from the Whittier numenoreans and were down with sauron
Just a shame the Men of the West never really faced any punishment for their crimes. I don’t necessarily want Sauron to win, I really don’t, but fuck those Westoids.
Just a shame the Men of the West never really faced any punishment for their crimes.
I mean their continent city was destroyed in an apocalypse sent by the gods, to the point that the only survivors of their race were a handful of traitors to the numenorean imperial project
I found a really really good nearly 4 damn hour long YouTube video raking Numenor over the coals. The thumbnail had been on my homepage for like a month and it figured it would be a breadtube kinda deal by a movie fan. Nope, it’s got very in depth Tolkien research and puts disparate things together fantastically to really illustrate that the Numenoreans were jerks. Its worth a watch
I was referring to the orcs as the evil race from the east. And I’m not saying that is objectively the reading of Lord of the Rings, but if you want to say that the story lends itself to a pro-fascist viewpoint, its easy to do that. Its also easy to say that the story is pro-anarchist or monarchist or grill pill or whatever you want.
It’s been a while for me but I’m pretty sure you’re thinking of Men. Elves woke up in the West of Beleriand.
No one really can definitively say where orcs came from but if we assume they were corrupted elves, which I like, then they are still technically a ‘western’ race.
Nah, you’re right! Elves woke up in the distant East as did Men. So I guess orcs could be considered eastern by my headcanon but so would everyone else like you said so I don’t know where that leaves us. Haha
Starting in the east and going west to die (like the sun) is a common trope in these epics, and actually just a common theme throughout culture and religions
I think there are so many readings of the Lord of the Rings that it is possible to make it say whatever you want by picking and choosing quotes.
Its a story about an evil race of people invading from the east. Its also about how the people of the world must move past racial prejudice to defeat evil.
You can take whatever message you want from it. When I read it recently I found it funny how many characters were just saying “the West has fallen, billions must die”
They’re not evil Eastern people, though.
There are orientalist elements but the Easterlings and Haradrim are not anymore evil than anyone else. Literally the most powerful, noble, specially God-blessed race of the most Western Men did the same thing and followed Sauron only to build shrines to Morgoth and invade Aman, the land of the Gods. Arguably far more evil shit can be attributed to Numenoreans and their descendants than Easterlings or Haradrim.
As /u/stillhauntingeurope mentioned in that thread, Easterlings and Haradrim initially allied themselves with Sauron because of their experiences of colonization at the hands of the ‘Men of the West’.
Considering its the same numenoreans who colonized the south and east and what we see in lord of the rings is partially blowback and partially being ruled by dudes who descendants from the Whittier numenoreans and were down with sauron
Exactly.
Just a shame the Men of the West never really faced any punishment for their crimes. I don’t necessarily want Sauron to win, I really don’t, but fuck those Westoids.
I mean their continent city was destroyed in an apocalypse sent by the gods, to the point that the only survivors of their race were a handful of traitors to the numenorean imperial project
All my homies hate Numemore.
I found a really really good nearly 4 damn hour long YouTube video raking Numenor over the coals. The thumbnail had been on my homepage for like a month and it figured it would be a breadtube kinda deal by a movie fan. Nope, it’s got very in depth Tolkien research and puts disparate things together fantastically to really illustrate that the Numenoreans were jerks. Its worth a watch
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_xb3zd5AGTY&t=
I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
I was referring to the orcs as the evil race from the east. And I’m not saying that is objectively the reading of Lord of the Rings, but if you want to say that the story lends itself to a pro-fascist viewpoint, its easy to do that. Its also easy to say that the story is pro-anarchist or monarchist or grill pill or whatever you want.
That’s fair. Orcs aren’t from the east though, TECHNICALLY, but I understand what you mean.
It’s definitely open to different interpretations, fully agree.
I mean…fucking everyone from The East. That’s where the elves woke up
It’s been a while for me but I’m pretty sure you’re thinking of Men. Elves woke up in the West of Beleriand.No one really can definitively say where orcs came from but if we assume they were corrupted elves, which I like, then they are still technically a ‘western’ race.Nah, you’re right! Elves woke up in the distant East as did Men. So I guess orcs could be considered eastern by my headcanon but so would everyone else like you said so I don’t know where that leaves us. Haha
Starting in the east and going west to die (like the sun) is a common trope in these epics, and actually just a common theme throughout culture and religions
The east could just refer to normal ass middle earth which was to the east of beleriand as well