Continuation of this thread.
I asked him to consider why, despite having been anti-abortion for a long time, he never bothered to learn about the effects of pregnancy and childbirth on women’s bodies and whether that constituted a severe failure to prioritize on his part. He told me to, basically, shut up and stop talking about it. At this point, I agreed with him that I would not change his mind and told him that I’d rather not speak with him anymore, for the same reason that
CW: Misogyny, SV
I would not want to associate with someone who supports legalizing maritalremoved.
A few minutes later, I got this email:
You know, I tried to say “Let’s avoid this topic.” And then you make ridiculous statements such as accusing me of “not caring about women.” Something you damn well know is false. And you rage quit when you get upset.
The bottom line is that you are a narcissist. You are a person who cares about no one and nobody except yourself and your own self-gratification. I’m sorry, but you really are. You take pleasure in putting other people down knowing they will come crawling back to you because they need a friend. Only so that you can abuse them some more.
Well, there is no hope for ever fixing a narcissist. So you are right, this relationship is toxic. You cannot be fixed. And I am done being your victim.
You take pleasure in putting other people down knowing they will come crawling back to you because they need a friend.
Complete self-own lmao
yes, if you are anti abortion you dont care about women. next.
that email
“well you told me to stop talking to you, but guess what? It is I who am not talking to you” 🌽
Calling people a narcissist is classic lib shit. They use it like a fuckin harry potter spell; same as with any rhetorical fallacy. “I said 'expelliarmus(appeal to authority) that means you’re dead!” Its playground shit. You’re better off.
The virgin logical fallacy memorizer vs the chad “informal logical fallacies aren’t real fallacies”
Fallacy guys dont really seem to understand that pointing out someone’s methodology is bad doesnt mean their conclusion is bad and disproving the conclusion is what really matters, the fallacies are just for bonus points
Classic fallacy fallacy
Yes, but even that feels like sinking to their level. Never ever call out a fallacy by name cause it makes you look like a nerd, actually point out what was done wrong instead of namedropping. Reddit guys take the inverse approach to what is somewhat effective and will drop terminology they think works but are gambling kn understanding correctly which leaves you pretty vulnerable to it becoming a frustrating argument about language. Just tell them exactly why their logic is flawed in the context of the argument, dont jusr name a fallacy. The most important thing in arguing online is to never let your opponent drift the conversation away, stick to the topic at make them answer questions directly
narcissist
Scum person detected in that word alone. Anyone who complains about narcissists or other misused therapy speak is not a person deserving of respect.
I hate how normalised using narcissist as an insult is even in left wing spaces. NPD is a real mental condition that affects people, to me it’s no different than using autistic or schizophrenic as an insult.
Isn’t narcissist from a Greek myth? I think the use of the term as an insult is older than the naming of the personality disorder.
Yes but it was used more in terms of vanity than manipulative self centeredness. Greek dude just thought he was really hot and drowned trying to make out with his reflection in a puddle or something like that
People who call others narcissists aren’t using it in that context though, they’re using it in the context of the mental disorder.
Yeah, Narcissus, guy who was beautiful and fell in love with his reflection in a lake. Couldn’t bear to leave his love and died on the spot.
Psychologists should have worked exclusively in latin. These terms are too sensitive to entrust with the general public.
Latin is not enough, they need to switch to spoken version of doctors notes
dial-up modem noises
Doesn’t stop these people when talking about fallacies, e.g. “ad hominem”
I am done being your victim.
says the guy who literally supports victimizing and torturing people.
A dear friend of mine almost DIED from trying to create a child because her organs started failing. She and her husband lucked out and the kid is healthy, but she’s still medically frail 3 years later. To go through that and not abort was her choice and I’m happy it worked out to her and her family’s satisfaction. I’m very glad she didn’t die. But to put someone through that against their will is categorically evil.
this man gets infested with guinea worms or something similar.You were right to cut him off because he sounds like a horrible person. You were also much kinder to him than I’ve been to forced-birthers. There’s no changing their minds so the only productive and legal thing to do is to hurt their feelings. Don’t let his attempts to reverse who the villain was here get to you — it’s a manipulative abuse tactic known as “DARVO” (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DARVO)
God, that anecdote is horrifying, and it’s similar to so many other heartbreaking stories I’ve heard. One in particular that stood out to me was a victim of the adoption industry, who discussed how (surprise surprise) said industry is a big funder of the anti-choice movement and has a habit of doing the old pump-and-dump on expecting mothers (putting on a big show of being supportive while they’re pregnant to convince them to have the kid and then, once the child is born, hanging the mother out to dry so that she’ll be pressured to put her child up for adoption and thus give them more inventory).
That’s horrifying. May the Guinea Worms get those monsters too
Funny to call you a narcissist for
caring about other people and their well beingDude needs a goddamn IMAX screen for all the projecting he’s doing.
Seems like you’re much better off not associating with someone like this. If you have any mutual friends/acquaintances, this person is probably going to spin some sob story to them about how awful a person you are, including lying about what you actually said to them, and definitely lying about what they said, so expect quite a few odd conversations where someone thinks you did and said awful things. But anyone who takes the word of someone like this that you are an “abuser” or whatever psychology term they choose to misuse is probably going to also be a negative influence on your life.
I’ve got a lot of experience with dealing with the fallout of rejecting a (clinically diagnosed) narcissist and cutting them out of my life, so feel free to DM me if you need to talk about unexpected things happening with this :)
If you have any mutual friends/acquaintances
To the extent that we have any at all, I’m much closer to them than he is, so I’m not too worried. I do appreciate the offer, though
I think the take away from this is that debates don’t change peoples’ mind. People hold opinions because it benefits them materially. This person likely opposes abortion because they believe it will benefit them materially. Misogynists support misogyny because they think that oppressing women will benefit them materially.
The way that you change peoples’ mind is through changing material conditions. (I’m not sure about this person specifically. Some people you personally can not change. There will have to be some sort of government or community efforts to change those people.) Ways that people will have their minds changed on abortion will be through material actions, ex: teaching people about consent, condom giveaways, std clinics, etc.
As an example of volunteer work, it is possible to volunteer at an abortion clinic as a clinic escort. At Planned Parenthood and other clinics, there are volunteer programs where you can walk with patients to protect the patient from anti-abortion protestors. There’s also fake abortion clinics called “Crisis Pregnancy Center”, which try to trick the patients. A role of the escort is to prevent the patient from being tricked by the fake clinic.
So much. I’ve been thinking to myself lately, especially given the recent master debater event, that debate is useless, but I haven’t really grappled with that concept yet. So thank you for putting it to words.
Like, you debate where the group eats dinner or what color to paint your house. You can’t debate human rights. It’s a hopeless battle, and the only way to actually sway your cause is with action.
And now I’m probs on some radical watch list.
You posted on hexbear it’s already too late
Human rights arent up for debate. Simple as
I think what you’re saying is broadly true, but false consciousness can also reach lower than that, to basically an aesthetic level where someone has given up on substantial material benefit (or such pursuits are very siloed to them) and otherwise now just seeks to subjugate people for their own pleasure, and nowhere is this more obvious than with misogynists who seem to just want to abuse women not because of complaints about wage deflation but because they get pleasure from it happening. It also happens with immigrants, where similar complaints about things like wage deflation rapidly devolve into a theater of cruelty that doesn’t always have clear economic intentions, even incorrect ones.
In both the cases of misogyny and xenophobia, it is not about wage deflation. That’s just a deflection talking point. I don’t think people actually believe in lump sum of labor.
The goal of xenophobia and misogyny is to create an exploitable underclass. The material benefit for right wingers is that they exploit these groups of people. Exploitation is the use of power to extract value. Right wingers seek to make immigration difficult so that migrants are forced to work for lower wages. This is why migrants get punished but not the businesses who utilize the labor of undocumented migrants.
The material benefit of the misogynist is that they force their will over a woman or women. A misogynist has made the calculation that oppressing women is more personally beneficial than liberating women. The pleasure is part of the material gain.
I am saying that you can not change the mind of the person who has made this calculation through debate. They’re making the decision to be a misogynist, not because it’s right but because (1) they can get away with it and (2) they get stuff from taking advantage of women. Nothing can be said to the misogynist which will change those 2 deciding factors.
Society has to be changed so that oppression is not rewarded and that oppressors do not “get away with it”.
I don’t think pleasure is itself a material benefit, even if you can circle around that point by talking about labor exploitation and such.
The bottom line is that you are a narcissist.
Holy fucking projection batman
“Idk man sounds more like a crashout on your part, peace”
If it makes you feel any better, I was called “Mr. Hyde” for suggesting that my ex-friend not judge people for exercising reproductive rights. They just don’t want to be called out for their poor logic and shit behavior, so they lash out. Its not on you.
Im now picturing a version of Dr. Jeckyll and Mr. Hyde where Jeckyll is a reddit nerd and Mr. Hyde is cool af
Of course he tries to be the one to cut you out when you just cut him out. Can’t have that ego bruised, gotta save face. He needs a mirror if he’s calling you a narcissist.
let them have the last word. They aren’t worth engaging with. Enjoy the reduced blood pressure the lack of this person in your life likely brings.
I would probably tell them they’re the real narcissist and to quit sending me these ridiculous essays, then block them on all channels so as to spike their blood pressure instead, but I’m spiteful like that
That’s what anyone like this wants. They want a fight so the other party can be the “bad guy” and they can self-victimise. Nothing makes them madder than just ignoring them and letting them get the last word that makes them look like an asshole.
Yeah true, I’m also looking forward to when I get to reply to one of these with “UNSUBSCRIBE” folloowed by a block, lol
Believe me, I fully intend to.
