I made a post about the Europeans who are being deported from Germany for being anti-genocide. https://lemmy.ml/post/28407953
A user repeated the now many times debunked lie that these victims facing deportation were “violent racist rioters”. Blatant German propaganda, made up to smear opposition to the genocide in Palestine. Which Germany supplies 30% of the weapons for.
After calling them, and a few other users out for repeating the same lie, the moderators banned me.
The rule to… not call out the German government for their complicity in genocide? I didn’t find it. It must be one of those unspoken german rules.
Yes. You are racist and Fascist if you do not support armed resistance of people in a concentration camp against their oppressor.
This is “do you support the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto fighting back against the Nazis” and if the answer is no then you go straight to the Nazi bin. You expect .ml is going to wait 30 years for people to have “always been against this” like Nazi Germany, instead of simply “being against this” in the present while a people are being exterminated.
The only reason you cannot accept this is because Germany literally makes it illegal to not be racist (support the Palestinian resistance) and nobody around you dares not being racist.
But the actual Nazis who make extremist statements such as Israel has the right to kill Palestinian civilians are the ones running Nazi Germany.
See thats exactly the flamebait.
There is a war between two religious fundamentalist parties.
One of them is clearly worse than the other, opressing them and doing horrible warcrimes.
One can be against the horrifying killing, bombing and starving of civilians by a right wing religious fundamentalist government while STILL be against the kidnappig and shooting of civilians by a religious fundamentalist organization.
You making up a false dilemma by throwing everyone who has a more complex view on things than “this one religious fundamentalist group is in the right with everything and the other one needs to be completely annihilated” Into the the Nazi bin.
This is clearly not argumentation in good faith.
Sure one side is clearly worse, but that doesn’t make the other one untouchable or not to be criticized.
criticizing the scewed media in Germany, actively going on anti-israel demonstrations, demanding from your government to stop sending weapons and instead initiate tariffs on this far right warcrime nation BUT STILL not defending the shooting of civilians on a music festival or kidnapping of them, is a valid position, it may not be your position, but calling those position “pro-genocide” or “clearly Nazis/fascists” is just plainly wrong.
You can be activly fighting against genocide WHILE STILL not fighting for a radical fundamentalist religious group.
You can fight for the people, their rights, their lives while not supporting their ideology.
You making a “either you are 100% with us, or you are a facist” argument is either plain stupid or ragebait and surley neither dialectic nor materialistic.
Like fuck it is 🙄
There is an oppressive occupation of mostly defenceless civilians, not “war between two parties”. Unless you consider Nazi final solution “war between two parties”.
Just realise I’m arguing against someone who honestly asks “should vegans who raise their kids vegan get their kids taken away?”
And makes fun of women who are afraid of going out at night in fear of violence from men…
Guess we don’t have any common ground for a good faith discussion
I guess we don’t as I am finding defending nazi murderes abhorrent and drawing comparison between them and their victims, a behaviour only a total cunt would possibly engage in.
Strawman xD I am not defending the Israeli state, fkin fascists need to be stopped. But that’s the thing with you guys, your world view is so narrow that you can’t possibly imagine someone having a differentiated view. In your eyes anyone who disagrees with you on anything must be a supporter of the other side. You can’t believe someone actually arguing about actions he believes are wrong. You promptly see red and think he only criticize you because he is an agent of your enemy.
Both can be true lol. Being oppressed AND being fundamentalist religious.
There are also oppressed parts of that party who are not as religiously fundamentalist, like the fatah. But being on the oppressed side doesn’t make the hamas less religiously fundamentalist. Like fighting against the Nazis in ww2 didn’t make USA less a capitalist party
Don’t get your point here.
This is a colonial project of a secular racial supremacist state (like the Nazis) using religious symbolism (like the Nazis) commiting ethnic cleansing (like the Nazis) against a people fighting for their freedom in a concentration camp (like the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto against the Nazis)
Rarely will you witness a conflict more black and white than the genocide in Palestine. If you spent any time on Lemmy you should know by know what the truth of the situation is. Any other opinion is either willful ignorance, or in the case of Germany, racism.
You are fighting a strawman, no one is arguing “Israel = good”
The point is that killing civilians is bad, even if done by people fighting facist Israel
That religious fundamentalism is bad, even if done by people fighting facist Israel
You are wrongfully argumenting that criticizing warcrimes on one side amounts to supporting warcrimes of the other side.
You can be against starving of civilians, against genocide, against shooting civilians, against holding civilians hostage, against religious fundamentalism because those things are bad tools from an ethical point of view, no matter who uses those tools.
You are saying those tools are only bad, if israel use them, not when Hama’s uses them.
You are saying everyone who is against killing civilians IN GENERAL is a nazi
You are exactly proving my point.
If you keep someone locked in your unlit pantry for 50 years, feeding them nothing but piss and shit, and suddenly they break out and start trying to shank people, it’s not very brave or intellectual to suddenly come out as “one who is against ALL knife fights and stabbing in general”
If I’ve been protesting against keeping someone locked up in an unlit pantry for years and arguing humans should be treated humanly and neither tortured nor killed, and then they break out and start killing civilians regardless if they were part of the oppressors or not, it is only logical I say this is, while understandable, still not the right thing to do.
You’re completely glossing over the power imbalance in this hypothetical. You cannot compare violence of the oppressor with violence of the oppressor as if they exist in the same moral plane. You liken Hamas’ resistance to systematic oppression, but how can Hamas systematically oppress when they have no weapons, food, water, or power? Pretty easy to say “Akshually, i think both sides need to play by the same rules” when one side has an inordinate power advantage over the other side. You’re doing everything in your power to condemn the violence carried out by the oppressed side so that you can ignore the inherent violence of the system that created this genocide.
Nah man, im protesting against Israelis ocupation on the streets, I’m demanding of my government that they stop supplying them weapons and start sanctioning them, I condemn my my government for not carrying out the orders by the international court… I am certainly not ignoring the violence of the oppressive system.
But there are red lines, and murdering civilians is one of them, no matter what others did to you.
“No one is arguing Israel good, but anyone fighting against them is bad”.
Here a short clip. You are the lady on the left https://youtu.be/GtivLcDAHz0
C’mon, you seem like someone arguing for something you really believe in.
I literally said I am supporting the protests by going there.
You use quotation marks as if you were quoting something I said, which I clearly didn’t.
Why this strawman?
Supporting Palestine means supporting Palestine. Not this wishy washy both sides BS.
If you do not support Palestinians fighting back against their colonial genocidal oppressors then you do not support them. Especially when you go around denouncing people online for it.
Hamas exists because Palestinians have exhausted every other possible peaceful method of resistance. Even Hamas did a peaceful march in 2017 and Israel shot medical workers there.
There is a difference in supporting the fight for freedom and supporting everything an organization stands for.
I think its good the USA fought the Nazis in WW2 - doesn’t mean I can’t criticize their capitalist imperialistic view of the world.
I think its good Palestinians fight oppressive Israel, doesn’t mean I can’t criticize hamas fundamentalist religious view of the world.
I think its good USA fought facist Japan in ww2, doesn’t mean I can’t criticize them for the means by which they did it, like dropping nuclear bombs mainly killing civilians
I think its good Palestinians fight against facist Israel, doesn’t mean I can’t criticize them for the means by which they do it, like shooting down a music festival, mainly killing civilians.
Having the luxus/privilege of not being involved directly in the matter means you have the duty to criticize warcrimes not because of who commits them, but because they are warcrimes.
Having ethics means you make arguments based on actions, not by who does the actions (argumentum at hominem)
This does not amount to “wishy washy both sides” (false balance). One side is clearly worse, one side is clearly the systematic oppressor, one side is clearly more to blame. This just doesn’t mean the other side can’t be criticized at all, and clearly not “anyone measuring both by the same standards is a Nazi”
The word “support” does not mean “agree with all their stances”. Step one is Palestinian liberation. After that comes the rest
Hamas committed a targeted raid against Israeli military bases.
The music festival meme is ridiculous because many murdered there were killed by Israeli apache helicopters as can be seen from the cars with holes in their roofs.
And it was not the target. It was not even supposed to be there. There was armed soldiers in the festival as well. And many there were active IDF members as it was next to a military base.
The German government is sending weapons to a colonial Apartheid starving 2 million people in a concentration camp. You should learn what the Holocaust was about.