Creatures with free will and intelligence who evolved those capabilities (and speech) with the sole purpose of being better at hunting humans.
Creatures with free will and intelligence who eat humans. Not because they need to eat humans, mind, they’re perfectly fine eating other things, but because they genetically like to kill and eat humans.
Creatures with free will and intelligence who are biologically incapable of feeling emotions like empathy, sympathy, guilt, or remorse. Seriously, some have spent centuries trying to learn how to feel them, and have failed.
Creatures with free will and intelligence who’ll be the first to admit that they’re better described as savage deceitful beasts, and that it’d be foolish and suicidal to trust them as far as you can throw them.
And, that said, Frieren the character advocates (with extremely good evidence backed reason) for their genocide, but the book and the authors don’t seem to do the same thing.
There’s plenty of characters that try to get along with demons, or trust them (and often pay dearly for it), and plenty of chapters where we see the demons’ point of view and can’t fail but to somewhat empathize with them, even if they’d be unable to reciprocate.
At no point do the book or the authors try to make the readers hate demons. They make us fear them, sure, but mostly they make us feel empathy and pity for them.
Hell, the fourth fan favourite character is a demon (and what a fantastic character it is).
Sorry to say this, but this a genuine belief I have that makes me unable to enjoy Frieren :(
I hope that the writer solves this conundrum by either making it clear that demons don’t have free will, or make it so that Frieren doesn’t want to commit a genocide.
Frieren’s emotions on the matter are addressed in episode 7.
Episode 7 and 8
The demons acted as peace envoys.
Its turns out that was a lie to get the humans to turn off the magic force field so they could attack with their demon armies.
Frieren’s indifference to killing demons is shown to be a necessity for survival.
It can be a bit hard to wrap our heads around. Humans don’t really face natural predators anymore, so it can be tough for many of us to imagine the kill or get eaten life style.
Imagine if man-eating spiders started to talk to us, transformed to look like us and became our friends only so we’d let our guard down and open the door to the their spider army.
Humans squash bugs indifferently all the time. To Frieren, demons are man-eating bugs that need squashing.
As for free will, the demons we see do seem have free will, which they use to kill humans, again its a kill or be killed world. It’s about survival, not a senseless eradication of a group of people.
Qual from ep2 seemed like a nice guy, until you remember he invited the killing spell is being executed for the mass-muder of humans, 80 years in the past.
If Frieren doesn’t kill the demons, the demons will kill them.
The difference between child Hitler and a demon, is that Frieren knows what the demon will do in the future, just like we know what happens when you release a hungry lion in a room full of antalope.
Frieren might be shooting first in the battle, but the demons shot first in the war.
The demons use human sympathy to gain trust and it works. You feel for them, you want to protect them, may even be attracted to them, and give them a chance and that’s their whole stick. They’re just hungry lions that transformed to look like their prey.
Hitler, and the Nazis, had believed that certain groups of people were inferior and a that only a superior race should exist.
So what did the rest of the world do? Those that could fight, fought back to survive and protect those that couldn’t.
If we’re going to compare roles;
Demon king is Hitler, demons are the Nazi forces, Frieren and her party are the allied forces. In the show Frieren is defeating the remnants of an active terrorist cell following in the footsteps of the demon king/Hitler.
If you try to put Frieren in the Hitler role, it doesnt make sense. She doesn’t go from town to town murdering anything that’s not an elf. She’s not gaining followers to take over the kingdoms.
You could call Frieren racist towards demons; but if a group murdered your entire village, and you watch them do it to countless others over a thousand years, never meeting a “nice” demon, you’d provably learn to shoot first too.
Why is that sad? The depiction of demons as creatures that are incapable of empathy and exploit human compassion as an evolutionary strategy is interesting and makes for good drama and moral conflicts in the show. I’m honestly tired of the standard plot about demons just being misunderstood poor little babies that humans bully for seemingly no reason. I understand why that is a popular theme - it resonates with most of our own history after all, but it’s been done to absolute death.
They are shown to have morality and free will, so there are some who can follow and believe our morality. Every time Frieren fires first she is in the wrong.
I would also enjoy that kind of story, but then the author wanted to make demons interesting and gave them free will and morality. This is what ruins the show for me.
They do have free will but where have you seen any depiction of morality as humans understand it? You also need to understand that a characters thoughts and actions are up to your own interpretation and do not necessarily reflect the authors opinions. Even if I were to disagree with Frieren the character as strongly as you seem to, then it still wouldn’t detract from my enjoyment of the show. I don’t need my entertainment to regurgitate my own morals to me.
The morality I speak of is the one of hierarchy and magical power. The fact that they have both a moral system and free will means that they can chose to adopt another moral system. Frieren can’t know if every demon follows the same system.
Sadly, Frieren justifies genocide against creatures with free will and intelligence.
Creatures with free will and intelligence who evolved those capabilities (and speech) with the sole purpose of being better at hunting humans.
Creatures with free will and intelligence who eat humans. Not because they need to eat humans, mind, they’re perfectly fine eating other things, but because they genetically like to kill and eat humans.
Creatures with free will and intelligence who are biologically incapable of feeling emotions like empathy, sympathy, guilt, or remorse. Seriously, some have spent centuries trying to learn how to feel them, and have failed.
Creatures with free will and intelligence who’ll be the first to admit that they’re better described as savage deceitful beasts, and that it’d be foolish and suicidal to trust them as far as you can throw them.
And, that said, Frieren the character advocates (with extremely good evidence backed reason) for their genocide, but the book and the authors don’t seem to do the same thing.
There’s plenty of characters that try to get along with demons, or trust them (and often pay dearly for it), and plenty of chapters where we see the demons’ point of view and can’t fail but to somewhat empathize with them, even if they’d be unable to reciprocate.
At no point do the book or the authors try to make the readers hate demons. They make us fear them, sure, but mostly they make us feel empathy and pity for them.
Hell, the fourth fan favourite character is a demon (and what a fantastic character it is).
(Granted, the third are the mimics, but still.)
you dropped this, /s
Sorry to say this, but this a genuine belief I have that makes me unable to enjoy Frieren :(
I hope that the writer solves this conundrum by either making it clear that demons don’t have free will, or make it so that Frieren doesn’t want to commit a genocide.
Frieren’s emotions on the matter are addressed in episode 7.
Episode 7 and 8
The demons acted as peace envoys.
Its turns out that was a lie to get the humans to turn off the magic force field so they could attack with their demon armies.
Frieren’s indifference to killing demons is shown to be a necessity for survival.
It can be a bit hard to wrap our heads around. Humans don’t really face natural predators anymore, so it can be tough for many of us to imagine the kill or get eaten life style.
Imagine if man-eating spiders started to talk to us, transformed to look like us and became our friends only so we’d let our guard down and open the door to the their spider army. Humans squash bugs indifferently all the time. To Frieren, demons are man-eating bugs that need squashing.
As for free will, the demons we see do seem have free will, which they use to kill humans, again its a kill or be killed world. It’s about survival, not a senseless eradication of a group of people.
Qual from ep2 seemed like a nice guy, until you remember he invited the killing spell is being executed for the mass-muder of humans, 80 years in the past.
If I, a known child killer, fails to kill a child, and that child grows up to become Hitler. I am then not justified in the murder I attempted.
As long as the demons have free will Frieren will always be in the wrong for shooting first.
If Frieren doesn’t kill the demons, the demons will kill them. The difference between child Hitler and a demon, is that Frieren knows what the demon will do in the future, just like we know what happens when you release a hungry lion in a room full of antalope.
Frieren might be shooting first in the battle, but the demons shot first in the war.
The demons use human sympathy to gain trust and it works. You feel for them, you want to protect them, may even be attracted to them, and give them a chance and that’s their whole stick. They’re just hungry lions that transformed to look like their prey.
Hitler, and the Nazis, had believed that certain groups of people were inferior and a that only a superior race should exist. So what did the rest of the world do? Those that could fight, fought back to survive and protect those that couldn’t.
If we’re going to compare roles; Demon king is Hitler, demons are the Nazi forces, Frieren and her party are the allied forces. In the show Frieren is defeating the remnants of an active terrorist cell following in the footsteps of the demon king/Hitler.
If you try to put Frieren in the Hitler role, it doesnt make sense. She doesn’t go from town to town murdering anything that’s not an elf. She’s not gaining followers to take over the kingdoms.
You could call Frieren racist towards demons; but if a group murdered your entire village, and you watch them do it to countless others over a thousand years, never meeting a “nice” demon, you’d provably learn to shoot first too.
Why is that sad? The depiction of demons as creatures that are incapable of empathy and exploit human compassion as an evolutionary strategy is interesting and makes for good drama and moral conflicts in the show. I’m honestly tired of the standard plot about demons just being misunderstood poor little babies that humans bully for seemingly no reason. I understand why that is a popular theme - it resonates with most of our own history after all, but it’s been done to absolute death.
They are shown to have morality and free will, so there are some who can follow and believe our morality. Every time Frieren fires first she is in the wrong.
I would also enjoy that kind of story, but then the author wanted to make demons interesting and gave them free will and morality. This is what ruins the show for me.
They do have free will but where have you seen any depiction of morality as humans understand it? You also need to understand that a characters thoughts and actions are up to your own interpretation and do not necessarily reflect the authors opinions. Even if I were to disagree with Frieren the character as strongly as you seem to, then it still wouldn’t detract from my enjoyment of the show. I don’t need my entertainment to regurgitate my own morals to me.
The morality I speak of is the one of hierarchy and magical power. The fact that they have both a moral system and free will means that they can chose to adopt another moral system. Frieren can’t know if every demon follows the same system.