Cuba is already socialist, not sure what you’re trying to get at. Public ownership is the principle aspect of their economy and the working classes run the state.
Public ownership is the principle aspect of their economy and the working classes run the state.
Already did, unless you somehow think private ownership is principle and capitalists run the state, in which case extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, since you were the one that made the claim that Cuba wasn’t socialist originally.
No? Cuba has a state, it’s socialist, not yet at communism. Communism, the stateless, classless, moneyless society, where production and distribution is fully collectivized and run to fulfill everyone’s needs, is necessarily a post-socialist, global society. Socialism is the transitional state between capitalism and communism, and can happen at a national level.
Where capitalism is characterized by private ownership being principle and capitalists in charge of the state, socialism is characterized by public ownership as principle and the working classes in charge of the state.
Again, if you don’t believe Cuba fits the characterization of socialism as was your original claim, you need to back that up. They are recognized both by liberals and socialists of all stripes as socialist.
Marx can be forgiven for being wrong. He didn’t have an entire century’s worth of hindsight to inform him - unlike the modern-day personality cultists that claim him (like you).
consider late-stage communism and anarchism to be socialist.
Why do you have a problem with the working class controlling the means of production, (alleged) “socialist?”
You really cannot be taking swings at Cuba, there is simply no reasonable way to look at this tiny country under total siege by the most powerful empire of all time, see how much better their people live than any other nation at the same level of income, and declare that it’s a bad thing. Even a cursory investigation shows how much power the people have to change policy, it’s probably the most democratic country in the world, maybe ever. Here’s a short primer
Democracy in Cuba
I mean, just read that section on mass organizations and tell me that isn’t exactly what you profess to want. And this is from 2015, way before the 2022 Family Code referendum which made marriage equality a constitutional right (among various other highly progressive things) and was probably the most democratically-shaped document of all time, having been discussed in 133,000 public meetings across the nation, with 783,000 proposals for changes made by literally just regular people, in a process that took three and a half years and ended on the 25th revision, which was then adopted in a referendum by 87% of voters.
You’ve been posting every couple of hours for almost an entire day, when did you even sleep?? You replied 17 times in this comment chain without even trying to substantially respond to a single point I made. In every thread I’ve ever seen you participate in, you exclusively argue without the slightest grace and in obvious bad faith. Do you think this is how you convince people of anything? Do you think an outsider reading this chain of replies will see you as anything other than vulgar and offputting? What exactly do you think you’re accomplishing here? At least you make your opponents look incredibly reasonable and well-read by comparison. Your next move is to write a one-line reply responding to a single fragment of this comment, instead you should go to bed!
Says the (suposedly) “AES” country still awaiting socialism with baited breath for… how many decades now?
Cuba is already socialist, not sure what you’re trying to get at. Public ownership is the principle aspect of their economy and the working classes run the state.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, tankie.
Already did, unless you somehow think private ownership is principle and capitalists run the state, in which case extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, since you were the one that made the claim that Cuba wasn’t socialist originally.
Excuse me, tankie?
Are you trying to claim there is no state in Cuba?
Again… extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
No? Cuba has a state, it’s socialist, not yet at communism. Communism, the stateless, classless, moneyless society, where production and distribution is fully collectivized and run to fulfill everyone’s needs, is necessarily a post-socialist, global society. Socialism is the transitional state between capitalism and communism, and can happen at a national level.
Where capitalism is characterized by private ownership being principle and capitalists in charge of the state, socialism is characterized by public ownership as principle and the working classes in charge of the state.
Again, if you don’t believe Cuba fits the characterization of socialism as was your original claim, you need to back that up. They are recognized both by liberals and socialists of all stripes as socialist.
So you have zero evidence to back up your claim?
I have to back up the fact that you have no evidence to back your ridiculous claim?
Only a rabid anti-socialist claims that a state controlling the means of production qualifies as “socialism.”
No ifs.
No ands.
No buts.
You’re deeply unserious if you think Marx doesn’t count as a socialist, and only consider late-stage communism and anarchism to be socialist.
Marx can be forgiven for being wrong. He didn’t have an entire century’s worth of hindsight to inform him - unlike the modern-day personality cultists that claim him (like you).
Why do you have a problem with the working class controlling the means of production, (alleged) “socialist?”
You really cannot be taking swings at Cuba, there is simply no reasonable way to look at this tiny country under total siege by the most powerful empire of all time, see how much better their people live than any other nation at the same level of income, and declare that it’s a bad thing. Even a cursory investigation shows how much power the people have to change policy, it’s probably the most democratic country in the world, maybe ever. Here’s a short primer
Democracy in Cuba
I mean, just read that section on mass organizations and tell me that isn’t exactly what you profess to want. And this is from 2015, way before the 2022 Family Code referendum which made marriage equality a constitutional right (among various other highly progressive things) and was probably the most democratically-shaped document of all time, having been discussed in 133,000 public meetings across the nation, with 783,000 proposals for changes made by literally just regular people, in a process that took three and a half years and ended on the 25th revision, which was then adopted in a referendum by 87% of voters.
Meanwhile, at the moment, this is you
Your proof that I “declared” Cuba a “bad thing?”
No proof?
How tankie of you.
Can you even read, comrade? The fuck are you talking about?
Still no proof?
He didn’t say he doesn’t have proof, nor did he say he was a tankie. How can you say these things about him, when he hasn’t said them himself?
The suspense is killing me, tankie.
Oh, wait… no. It isn’t.
Hey I didn’t say I was a tankie either. If I didn’t literally say it, how can you claim I am it?
If I was you I’d desperately want to pretend to not be what I am either.
Still none from them, wild.
Db0 has a serious tankie problem.
That’s not a /0 user
I took it as “db0 gets attacked by Hexbear” more than db0 is tankie.
Ah, that is definitely true. They do love to get mald in our comms.
But they don’t attack do or infighting, they sware!
You’ve been posting every couple of hours for almost an entire day, when did you even sleep?? You replied 17 times in this comment chain without even trying to substantially respond to a single point I made. In every thread I’ve ever seen you participate in, you exclusively argue without the slightest grace and in obvious bad faith. Do you think this is how you convince people of anything? Do you think an outsider reading this chain of replies will see you as anything other than vulgar and offputting? What exactly do you think you’re accomplishing here? At least you make your opponents look incredibly reasonable and well-read by comparison. Your next move is to write a one-line reply responding to a single fragment of this comment, instead you should go to bed!
Lol!
Tankie, do you really think I’m trying to convince you of anything?
Then what are you trying to do?
And you deserve to know that because…?
So it’s something secret?
It’s a secret to nobody - except you.
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Need a change of underwear, perhaps?
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Do you require my permission to urinate all over yourself?
I assure you… you don’t.
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Still no permission required.
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Aaand… still no permission required