The creator of the Cyberpunk 2077 VR mod CD Projekt recently hit with a DMCA strike has paused his Patreon page and pulled access to all his mods after receiving another strike from a different publisher.
Looks like the Ghostrunner developers also have an issue with paid mods running off their IP.
In this case it’s cause the modder is charging money for the mod, I think CD Project Red even offered to allow it to exist if he stopped charging before this, so I would argue this is on the modder
I don’t understand what difference it makes to CDPR. if the guy makes a few bucks developing mods for the game, then he can spend more of his time developing the mod, and making mods for other games. right? in what way is it harming CDPR
He always had the option of using a donate option instead of locking it behind a paywall. CDPR tried getting him to go that route and he basically told them to pound sand so here we are.
Property rights get all sorts of goofy when money is involved. If homey had released the mod for free and just had a patreon or whatev on the side, no one would care, but because he was charging for it, CDPR is obigated to vigorously defend their copyright.
There’s a legal aspect where if you don’t defend your intellectual property you may lose it.
You also don’t want to set a precedent because if you let some rando do it, why not let a company do it? Why not let Google do it?
Modding implies toying with someone’s IP, and the basic premise is that you can’t paywall the resulting product. There’s a lot of leeway and you can ask for donations, offer private beta to your patrons etc… it can definitely be cash-flow positive but a straight up paywall is a violation of the social contract that governs the modding scene.
I am an artist who is VERY anti-IP law. The system as it exists is evil and does far more harm than good. IP is not some holy grail that deserves protection when it can be so easily abused. I would rather have no IP law than the current system, but I’ll settle for reforms.
That said, the prohibition of paid mods should be a cultural matter, not a legal one. It shouldn’t be illegal, but we as a gaming community should refuse to engage with them as poor practice
So, what if I wrote a book and got it published, but it didn’t sell well. Some big company copies it, puts a lot of effort in promoting it and it becomes a bestseller. I don’t get any of the money for it, but they cite me as the original author. How is that fair?
You did not describe a copyrightless world, you described academic publishing. On that note, fortunately open access allows the have nots to acquire the same knowledge of the haves. Elabakyan showed how good it could be but the copyright barons had to ruin it for everybody. Furthermore, removal of copyright would curtail the elite’s ability to impose a message on the proletariat.
Any sort of artwork is expensive to commission though. And if you’re born without a shred of artistic talent in your entire being, you ain’t doing it yourself.
So I’ve got some very broad strokes vision of a game I want to build and I haven’t expanded on it further because I know I can’t afford to make it.
If I do decide to make it, I’d have to hire someone to do 3D modelling* at the very least. I don’t see a world where that’s feasible without copyright, because then I’d just be paying someone’s salary (or commissions) and be out of pocket for it.
* No, don’t worry, I’m not thinking of yet another photorealistic-ish looking 3D game. More like something in the style of the 3D Zelda games or like some of the (MMO)RPGs of the 00s.
In sim racing, Assetto Corsa has tons of paid mods, and simultaneously its developer is one of very few profitable companies. How come Kunos aren’t bankrupt from paid mods existing?
I said from the get go that I was asking from a place of curiosity not judgement. I wasn’t “getting at” anything. It interests me to know what your stance is and how it might be informed. Congrats on being published, that’s pretty cool.
I don’t understand this at all.
rockstar did the same thing to the VR mods that were made for GTA games.
the guys are developing mods that are going to make me want to purchase and play the game. why is that a problem?
I don’t understand intellectual property
You don’t understand because you didn’t read the article
In this case it’s cause the modder is charging money for the mod, I think CD Project Red even offered to allow it to exist if he stopped charging before this, so I would argue this is on the modder
I don’t understand what difference it makes to CDPR. if the guy makes a few bucks developing mods for the game, then he can spend more of his time developing the mod, and making mods for other games. right? in what way is it harming CDPR
He always had the option of using a donate option instead of locking it behind a paywall. CDPR tried getting him to go that route and he basically told them to pound sand so here we are.
Property rights get all sorts of goofy when money is involved. If homey had released the mod for free and just had a patreon or whatev on the side, no one would care, but because he was charging for it, CDPR is obigated to vigorously defend their copyright.
There’s a legal aspect where if you don’t defend your intellectual property you may lose it.
You also don’t want to set a precedent because if you let some rando do it, why not let a company do it? Why not let Google do it?
Modding implies toying with someone’s IP, and the basic premise is that you can’t paywall the resulting product. There’s a lot of leeway and you can ask for donations, offer private beta to your patrons etc… it can definitely be cash-flow positive but a straight up paywall is a violation of the social contract that governs the modding scene.
Another day, another instance of someone confusing copyright with trademarks.
i was gonna ask for clarification cause the subject genuinely interests me but that Lemmy snark is so fucking boring, what a conversation killer
Bit petty to point that out since it’s entirely irrelevant to the discussion.
Not exactly, they made him remove the RDR 2 vr mod. the GTA is still up on github.
this is a terms of service issue, but they’re using dmca (copyright) to enforce.
he technically has a case for selling, but defending it would be too expensive. LR also isn’t socially adept so he’s self-sabatoged himself too.
I’m asking from a place of curiosity, not a place of judgement. Have you ever created anything? A piece of art, poem or prose, a film, a program, etc?
I am an artist who is VERY anti-IP law. The system as it exists is evil and does far more harm than good. IP is not some holy grail that deserves protection when it can be so easily abused. I would rather have no IP law than the current system, but I’ll settle for reforms.
I agree with this.
That said, the prohibition of paid mods should be a cultural matter, not a legal one. It shouldn’t be illegal, but we as a gaming community should refuse to engage with them as poor practice
Makes me think of all the day care places with Disney characters painted outside the walls…
Evil is a really strong word that I’m not sure I can get behind here.
It’s part of an overall system that protects the Haves from the Have-Nots. I consider it evil.
Copyright makes no sense. As long as there is a correct citation, it’s kosher as far as I’m concerned.
“This song was originally created by @turdnugget” should be the point of copyright and not the current rent seeking behaviour of the ruling class.
So, what if I wrote a book and got it published, but it didn’t sell well. Some big company copies it, puts a lot of effort in promoting it and it becomes a bestseller. I don’t get any of the money for it, but they cite me as the original author. How is that fair?
You just described academic publishing.
So how is that fair then?
You did not describe a copyrightless world, you described academic publishing. On that note, fortunately open access allows the have nots to acquire the same knowledge of the haves. Elabakyan showed how good it could be but the copyright barons had to ruin it for everybody. Furthermore, removal of copyright would curtail the elite’s ability to impose a message on the proletariat.
I will extend the same question to you.
Plenty of music, still think copyright is stupid.
Attribution, 100%, copyright itself is stupid.
Now I extend the same question to you.
I mostly write but have wanted to make a game for a while.
Just need to find someone to code?
I think that’s the easy bit. For me at least.
Any sort of artwork is expensive to commission though. And if you’re born without a shred of artistic talent in your entire being, you ain’t doing it yourself.
So I’ve got some very broad strokes vision of a game I want to build and I haven’t expanded on it further because I know I can’t afford to make it.
If I do decide to make it, I’d have to hire someone to do 3D modelling* at the very least. I don’t see a world where that’s feasible without copyright, because then I’d just be paying someone’s salary (or commissions) and be out of pocket for it.
* No, don’t worry, I’m not thinking of yet another photorealistic-ish looking 3D game. More like something in the style of the 3D Zelda games or like some of the (MMO)RPGs of the 00s.
No, I’d like to do that myself. Mostly need the time and sufficient motivation. Most of my time is eaten up GMing multiple ttrpgs a week right now.
In sim racing, Assetto Corsa has tons of paid mods, and simultaneously its developer is one of very few profitable companies. How come Kunos aren’t bankrupt from paid mods existing?
What does that have anything to do with my comment?
yes
Do you mind sharing what it was/is?
I have no idea what your question is getting at. I am a published artist but I pay my bills with unrelated W-2 work
I said from the get go that I was asking from a place of curiosity not judgement. I wasn’t “getting at” anything. It interests me to know what your stance is and how it might be informed. Congrats on being published, that’s pretty cool.
if I could sustain myself with art by charging a few bucks like the mod developer in this article is doing, then I would
I think that’s probably most artists’ dream!