Been following the developments on the shooting of Charlie Kirk quite intensively from Europe these past few days. This whole thing stinks. Investigators had no idea who the shooter was, then BOOM, all of a sudden they do? Tyler Robinson goes home, tells his dad (who is former law enforcement) and he then tells a family friend??? This stinks. if the father is a former cop or whatever, he would either go full out and snitch his son to the people searching for him, or take it with him to his grave. Makes no sense, I don’t buy it. Trump knew about the shooting before any media, that was on-site, reported about it? Fishy.
I dunno man, maybe its just my extreme distrust in the US but with all the radical shit that’s been happening over there since Trump’s reelection, I think nothing is too wild to not be considered. The american right needed someone of significance to get popped so they could use their image for martyrdom to push their ideals.
On a person note (yes, this is going to get me down voted to shit): I’m quite appalled at the sadism and joy that many people on Lemmy are taking to the killing of Kirk. I’m not getting into his politics. Yes, he was radical, i disagreed with his messaging and values and he was a piece of shit. But from a humanitarian perspective, way too many people here are making fucked up memes about the death of a young man with two young kids and a wife. You don’t have to like him, you can even hate him, but leave the guy some dignity ffs. Maybe Lemmy isn’t the platform of intellectuals I thought it was. This will probably be my last post. Americans are fucking insane.
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I have a serious question, if a Nazi radio propagandist in Germany was shot and killed in 1935, would you afford that person the same amount of empathy you are giving to Charlie kirk? He regularly spoke of subjugating women. Do you not think his wife and kids may be better off without him around, all women just a bit better off? Society, better off without such a hate filled man spreading verbal violence, encouraging physical violence? I honestly hate that I feel this way. But, only good fascist is a dead fascist. It was allowing these people unfettered freedom of speech, allowing them to yell fire in a crowded theater, or spout racist, sexist remarks at will without repercussions that got us in this position. Im just concerned of the martyrdom they have claimed and will take advantage of.
I don’t know what the resolution is. Violence begets violence, but, protesting peacefully wouldn’t have stopped Hitler or Mussolini. Im scared for my family, scared of these brainwashed idiot Republicans. I think a lot of us are at a loss for what to do. If you have any good ideas on how to stop our country from sliding further into a fascist dictatorship we would like know.
But, only good fascist is a dead fascist. It was allowing these people unfettered freedom of speech…
You realize you are just describing authoritarian fascism, if you use the tactics of a fascist you are a fascist by definition.
Kirk actually said he had no empathy for gun violence victims and that a few gun deaths are OK for the 2nd amendment. He died from a gunshot, next to a banner that said “Prove me wrong.”
Brother I dont know about you, but I see this as just about the best ending Charlie Kirk could have asked for. He got to be a martyr for his own cause, a cause which said it is OK for a few people to get murdered. Now, if Conservatives try for more gun control then that’s different. THAT would be distasteful to his memory. And hilarious.
Trump is a pedophile
Trump and Netanyahu both tweeted thoughts and prayers at the same moment. How the fuck did Netanyahu know or care that quickly?
homie netanyahu is so dependant on the US, the killing must’ve felt to him as if it happened on Israeli soil
C’mon now. If the powers that be had synthesized a scapegoat to take the fall, s/he would have - somehow - been a gay Mexican Jewish NEET FTM transsexual communist and a member of at least three street gangs and two cartels, not to mention a long time supporter of the Democratic party, complete with fan posters of Biden and Harris plastered on the wall, right above the neat typewritten and signed manifesto.
I fully agree with this and don’t dispute it, but when you look at all the media that came out from the republicans within the first 48 after the shooting, hell even trump’s speech, was about “the radical left”. even if the reality is different now, that thought is already engrained in the psyche of the right and I almost guarantee that even after the realization that Tyler is even more radical than kirk, the tabloids will continue to read “radical left”, even though everyone knows its bullshit. because its what everyone except for the dems want to hear.
Yeah, I’m not going to argue with that. It’s a tiresomely well-established MO at this point.
Which option would have led to further radicalization, the one you outlined or the current one?
The pattern at play is that group A is always preoccupied with group B among themselves. “Look what they did again!” “Only the other group would do that!” etc.
Hate grabs the attention. Not having inter-group communication anymore, lets people conjure up the worst version of the other side.
Hate it or like CK, he tried to have a left-right dialogue. Which of course upset radicalized people and people who’s goal is radicalization. Point is case, his shooter didn’t find him radical enough.
Hate makes people blind to solutions. Lemmy is a mostly left-leaning platform I presume, yet all I see is what the US right does in the flood of political posts. Turn the discussion back from constant finger pointing!
All right, but are you sure you’re arguing this with the right person?
How could I be sure? I have little to no basis who you are. I’m merely sharing my thoughts that this post and your comment has evoked.
Oh. Since you replied to me instead of making a new root-level comment, I rather assumed your comment was meant as a response to the content of mine.
Fair enough, I guess.
You need to spend less time on the internet.
Good general advice for everyone.
comparing your profile’s comment count to the average user, I’d say that’s solid self advice
Yup, it is. It’s also solid advice for anyone in Europe who is closely following American political drama. Our mental effort is better spent focusing on our own political systems, rather than being swept up in (and inadvertently contributing to) the English language internet’s American content bias.
For the record I entirely agree with your last paragraph, just not the first two.
Tu quoque fallacy
The scale of harm a guy like Kirk caused to people can be measured in the thousands of people. He reaped the benefits of championing a violent and deceitful ideology. He raised a generation of feral wolves that ate him alive. I do not sympathize, I dont weep for his family that will inherit millions from his propaganda empire, and I think the world is better off without him. I dont know about the false flag conspiracy angle, given that it would have been way more effective if the shooter wasnt a fucking Nick Fuentes goon. They coulda found a better sacrificial lamb.
Removed by mod
I don’t agree with you, you make strange leaps.
Investigators had no idea who the shooter was, then BOOM, all of a sudden they do?
Yeah, that’s how tiplines work.
if the father is a former cop or whatever, he would either go full out and snitch his son to the people searching for him, or take it with him to his grave.
I’m amazed at your confidence in this. The human mind is complex and I understand that a father who is strongly religious would seek guidance from a religious figure when overwhelmed with such shocking news.
fair enough.
do we know if the father is religious?
Yes, Mormon and MAGA. As an ex-Mormon I feel the authority to say that it is engraved as a kid you need to own up to mistakes in order to repent. Assuming the narrative on Lemmy is true (4chan hyper conservative) then it’s possible these stems from some kind of faith (book of Mormon has a story where God orders nephi to kill someone. Also the religion pushes personal revelation with god which is not a good combo with mental illnesses. Hearing voices? Maybe it’s god!). Not sure why he has an anti-fascist stance according to the bullet casings but wtv.
If the whole family is a bunch of MAGA like the grandmother said, then yes, greater than 90% chance he is. Those two things are extremely highly correlated.
Why should it matter that he wore down some young woman until she let him have a pity-fuck that produced offspring? Ignorance of birth control is not a virtue. The best thing he did for those kids was get shot in the neck before he could really start to influence them.
Hope you find the intellectual platform you’re looking for.
Why are the wives of these pieces of shit given a pass? I think it’s a form of misogyny as they think women have no agency. Except for in rare cases, they know exactly who their husbands are, and still choose to live with them. In most cases, they’re active supporters. Now, I do feel bad for the kids, since they had nothing to do with anything.
There’s a lot of religious messaging across a variety of groups directed at women to say they need a husband to own them and a minivan full of kids to be worthwhile. Getting raised to be a man’s external womb on legs (since, try as he might, he’s not making babies on his own) rather than your own person has to fuck you up and, in my view, mitigates some of the responsibility.
I understand that, but the women that we’re talking about are also complicit in spreading the same kind of ignorance. And they do profit from it. So, while I do understand why it happens, I just don’t think that it gives them a free pass.
The US does not presently have the capacity to execute a convincing conspiracy.
You are correct to observe the lack of humanity. I think when a non-radicalized person sees someone they dislike (no matter how intensely) have their throat shot open in front of a crowd of people attentively focusing on him, the horror and violence shock the senses and make whatever personal and political issues one has lose a lot of their currency so that one can cope with and process the traumatic thing that just happened as a human being rather than as a partisan. But that ain’t happening with the vast majority of Americans I have personally encountered (selection bias). Rather they are turning to bloodlust and hatred to help them deal with this traumatic event. And they insist this is the right way to deal with it. They cannot see the humanity of a person because of their hatred. There will be replies to this insisting that Charlie had no humanity and deserved this. Even if that is true, audience didn’t deserve it, and neither did the rest of us. This is a terrible thing for everyone of all politics.
The american right needed someone of significance to get popped so they could use their image for martyrdom to push their ideals.
I will just disagree with this point. Republicans don’t need anything real in order to play the martyr. They can be a bunch of whiny bitches when literally nothing is happening to them.
Also, I totally agree with your last point. I think there’s a lot of people on here that believe there’s problems with our county and only violence will solve it. It sometimes feels like there isn’t a place on Lemmy for disagreeing with that.
well said
I agree with the last part. I find it depressing to see people celebrate the murder of someone just because they disagree with their politics. Any principled person should be able to condemn this kind of violence, even if in this particular case it happens to align with their worldview. Nobody wants to live in a world where due process is replaced with vigilante justice. It’s naive to think it won’t eventually come back around and bite them in the ass. People with the truth on their side don’t need violence to silence opposition.
I think the left’s faith in an honest system without violence in politics is thoroughly rocked, given the past 10 years in American politics. They see grifters at the top get away with stuff that was considered unthinkable 20 years ago, all while watching ICE and some police departments inflict brutality on citizens and non-citizens alike. It feels like their entire identity and morality rooted in equality and empathy is being systematically erased or eradicated. So, while I don’t agree with it, I do understand the knee-jerk reaction, especially in a situation so thoroughly drenched in irony as Charlie Kirk’s.
I’m not thrilled that it came to the point that someone had to get shot to make the world a better place. I would have preferred it if Kirk changed his tune or just disappeared into the nothing. Instead, he continued to spread hateful rhetoric that has directly lead to others getting hurt or having their freedoms taken away. The world was immediately a better place the moment that bullet hit. I have empathy for those close to and that loved Kirk and are mourning his loss, but that’s met with the cautious optimism I have that those two kids have a chance at a better future.
Not you specifically, but this is pretty much the exact thing that I’ve seen non Americans calling for for months. Calls for why are Americans aren’t doing something about our Trump problem. Now when someone pulls the trigger and a domino falls, people around the world are clutching their pearls.
I’m not calling for violent action, but I’m also not going to look a gift horse in the mouth. When life gives you fascists, you make fertilizer.
If you could go back in time or have someone else do it and kill young adult Hitler, would you do it or condone that action?
I dunno man, maybe its just my extreme distrust in the US but with all the radical shit that’s been happening over there since Trump’s reelection, I think nothing is too wild to not be considered.
How do you know Kirk was a real person? How do you know he was shot, has a family, or was young? If you’re going to play the conspiracy game, get serious.
My personal theory is that Kirk or his people organised it. But the shooter was supposed to miss.
Same as Trump’s magic ear, then?
