I became an accelerationist after the last election. The man literally said he was going to do this before the election. This has to stop and Americans need to hurt until they learn. I am also an American so I will also hurt, maybe die, but we need to do better as a country.
I sure am glad that you consider vulnerable populations to be acceptable sacrifices to “do better as a country”, even without data suggesting effectiveness. /s
Let me see if I track this logic: “it’s ok/acceptable to sacrifice them because the fascists are probably going to try to murder them anyway?”…
Is that an accurate interpretation of what you wrote there? If it is, I suggest that you (metaphorically) look at yourself in the mirror (physically looking at yourself is ok too) because that’s best described as “fucked up”.
None of it is ok/acceptable. It’s about minimizing harm. It’s picking between eating a shit cupcake or a 3 course meal of shit. There is no non-shit option.
What would you pick, 20 year of fascism or 1 year of accelerationism? If you choose 20 years of fascism to keep your hands clean, then you are the one who is “fucked up”.
What would you pick, 20 year of fascism or 1 year of accelerationism? If you choose 20 years of fascism to keep your hands clean, then you are the one who is “fucked up”.
“So my choices are ‘or death’ ?”
No. I think that the premise there is faulty but, if the choices were:
20 years of fascism
Or
1 year of ultra-fascism with the goal of encouraging a workers’ revolution and/or complete societal collapse. All of the features of fascism but also people undergoing treatment for cancer, AIDS, and other diseases with high risk of fatality will die, mass starvation will occur, transgender people will have no access to medications for gender-affirming care, people with mental illnesses will have no access to medications that allow them to function and prevent their deaths, LGBTQ+, POC, and other vulnerable people will face lynchings and genocide, and people will die en masse from things that are currently uncommon even in developing nations (exposure due to lack of electricity, septicemia from splinters due to lack of antibiotics, malnutrition, etc). With the added “bonus” of all historical data showing the most likely outcomes generations of oppression and violence, not a workers’ utopia.
I’ll reiterate that I reject the premise as a false dichotomy but, with the option of 20 years of fascism there’s a chance of ending up like modern Spain and a possibility for some people that I love and care about to survive (and continue to fight for a more just world), whereas one year of ultra-fascism with potential societal collapse would mean that virtually ever single person that I know and care about in this country would be dead inside the year, unless I were able to somehow find the resources to get them out, which is very unlikely (I already lost a cousin to cancer due to lack of hospital capacity during the height of COVID - societal collapse would make Trump’s excess deaths during COVID look like rookie numbers).
It’s easy to get myopic and not see or empathize with the millions that would be impacted. The world is much easier to deal with when it can be simplified to “society is broken, we should just start over” but, this isn’t a video game where we can just reseat the cartridge and try again without consequences. Our species organizes into societies for many reasons, including protection of the vulnerable. There’s 340M people in the US, 170M of which require a prescription medication at a given time. Not all are medications that are necessary to sustain life but, a good portion are. Accelerationism marks their deaths and those of other populations as “collateral damage” and moves on, without dwelling and acknowledging that each and every one of these individuals is a human being with hopes and dreams that means something to someone (even if it is just the medical staff charged with their care).
Sure, the intention looks better but, by measure of total human cost, it is kinda hard to see accelerationism as the lesser of evils here. As the proverb goes: “The road to hell is paved with good intentions.” Additionally, (I can’t emphasize or repeat this enough) there’s no historical data to suggest that accelerationism doesn’t just end up with straight-up fascism or another oppressive society in the end, with history in the West and from Imperial China showing oppression as the most frequent result of similar actions. It is a reactionary ideology, bordering on religion, without direction from data or fact. Sure, one would hope that it results in a more just society built from the ground up but as another proverb goes: “Hope in one hand and shit in the other, then tell me which fills up first.”
What is the difference between fascism and ultra-fascism? Everything you listed for ultra-fascism can and does occur under fascism.
I’ll reiterate that I reject the premise as a false dichotomy
Great, what option am I missing? Without a democracy what options do we have other than revolution (I also don’t like but it is preferable to no democracy)?
with the option of 20 years of fascism there’s a chance of ending up like modern Spain and a possibility for some people that I love and care about to survive (and continue to fight for a more just world)
I get it, you are afraid of losing your love ones dying or being sent to a camp. Me too. What stops that from happening under fascism? Are your family and friends white? Listen, non-Jew Germans got put into camps too at Nazi Germany. Some people are more safe than others, but no one is safe. Due process is already gone. You’re either with them or against them, and my friend, this post you made is more than enough to send you a very fun place if they find you.
It’s easy to get myopic and not see or empathize with the millions that would be impacted.
I am not, I hate this. I have already said this. Empathy is what drives me to accelerationism.
There’s 340M people in the US, 170M of which require a prescription medication at a given time…
My friend, the US has already started a trade war with the world. There isn’t really any coming back from this. Even if I wasn’t an accelerationist, people are already going to die. Lots of them. The die is already cast here. Fascism started the trade war.
Sure, the intention looks better but, by measure of total human cost, it is kinda hard to see accelerationism as the lesser of evils here.
Do you not think fascism kills/harms people or do you not think the US is a fascist state? Listen, to be a moral net good, all accelerationism needs to do is to harm/kill one less person than lasting fascism would. I think that is pretty doable seeing as US fascism will affect the world.
As the proverb goes: “The road to hell is paved with good intentions.”
Right back at you Friend!
Additionally, (I can’t emphasize or repeat this enough) there’s no historical data to suggest that accelerationism doesn’t just end up with straight-up fascism
I agree, also, the US is currently (already) a fascist state! Do you think Trump is going to let an election remove himself from power? I am open to reverting out of my accelerationism if I feel like we are in a democracy again. So we will have to see how midterms and the next presidential elections look. But it isn’t looking great.
I sure am glad that you consider vulnerable populations to be acceptable sacrifices to “do better as a country”, even without data suggesting effectiveness. /s
What vulnerable populations would be harmed by accelerationism that wouldn’t be harmed by a powerful fascist US?
Let me see if I track this logic: “it’s ok/acceptable to sacrifice them because the fascists are probably going to try to murder them anyway?”…
Is that an accurate interpretation of what you wrote there? If it is, I suggest that you (metaphorically) look at yourself in the mirror (physically looking at yourself is ok too) because that’s best described as “fucked up”.
None of it is ok/acceptable. It’s about minimizing harm. It’s picking between eating a shit cupcake or a 3 course meal of shit. There is no non-shit option.
What would you pick, 20 year of fascism or 1 year of accelerationism? If you choose 20 years of fascism to keep your hands clean, then you are the one who is “fucked up”.
“So my choices are ‘or death’ ?”
No. I think that the premise there is faulty but, if the choices were:
Or
I’ll reiterate that I reject the premise as a false dichotomy but, with the option of 20 years of fascism there’s a chance of ending up like modern Spain and a possibility for some people that I love and care about to survive (and continue to fight for a more just world), whereas one year of ultra-fascism with potential societal collapse would mean that virtually ever single person that I know and care about in this country would be dead inside the year, unless I were able to somehow find the resources to get them out, which is very unlikely (I already lost a cousin to cancer due to lack of hospital capacity during the height of COVID - societal collapse would make Trump’s excess deaths during COVID look like rookie numbers).
It’s easy to get myopic and not see or empathize with the millions that would be impacted. The world is much easier to deal with when it can be simplified to “society is broken, we should just start over” but, this isn’t a video game where we can just reseat the cartridge and try again without consequences. Our species organizes into societies for many reasons, including protection of the vulnerable. There’s 340M people in the US, 170M of which require a prescription medication at a given time. Not all are medications that are necessary to sustain life but, a good portion are. Accelerationism marks their deaths and those of other populations as “collateral damage” and moves on, without dwelling and acknowledging that each and every one of these individuals is a human being with hopes and dreams that means something to someone (even if it is just the medical staff charged with their care).
Sure, the intention looks better but, by measure of total human cost, it is kinda hard to see accelerationism as the lesser of evils here. As the proverb goes: “The road to hell is paved with good intentions.” Additionally, (I can’t emphasize or repeat this enough) there’s no historical data to suggest that accelerationism doesn’t just end up with straight-up fascism or another oppressive society in the end, with history in the West and from Imperial China showing oppression as the most frequent result of similar actions. It is a reactionary ideology, bordering on religion, without direction from data or fact. Sure, one would hope that it results in a more just society built from the ground up but as another proverb goes: “Hope in one hand and shit in the other, then tell me which fills up first.”
What is the difference between fascism and ultra-fascism? Everything you listed for ultra-fascism can and does occur under fascism.
Great, what option am I missing? Without a democracy what options do we have other than revolution (I also don’t like but it is preferable to no democracy)?
I get it, you are afraid of losing your love ones dying or being sent to a camp. Me too. What stops that from happening under fascism? Are your family and friends white? Listen, non-Jew Germans got put into camps too at Nazi Germany. Some people are more safe than others, but no one is safe. Due process is already gone. You’re either with them or against them, and my friend, this post you made is more than enough to send you a very fun place if they find you.
I am not, I hate this. I have already said this. Empathy is what drives me to accelerationism.
My friend, the US has already started a trade war with the world. There isn’t really any coming back from this. Even if I wasn’t an accelerationist, people are already going to die. Lots of them. The die is already cast here. Fascism started the trade war.
Do you not think fascism kills/harms people or do you not think the US is a fascist state? Listen, to be a moral net good, all accelerationism needs to do is to harm/kill one less person than lasting fascism would. I think that is pretty doable seeing as US fascism will affect the world.
Right back at you Friend!
I agree, also, the US is currently (already) a fascist state! Do you think Trump is going to let an election remove himself from power? I am open to reverting out of my accelerationism if I feel like we are in a democracy again. So we will have to see how midterms and the next presidential elections look. But it isn’t looking great.