Tell me you didn’t read the article, without telling me you didn’t read the article:
Any digital noise or random signal would work to jam the navigation system, but Night Watch wanted to use the song because they think it’s funny. “We just send a song…we just make it into binary code, you know, like 010101, and just send it to the Russian navigation system,” Night Watch said. "It’s just kind of a joke.
[Bandera] is a Ukrainian nationalist and Russia tries to use this person in their propaganda to say all Ukrainians are Nazis. They always try to scare the Russian people that Ukrainians are, culturally, all the same as Bandera."
Boy, you must be super pissed at Russia and critical of a lot of their people then. If support for arguably-neo-Nazi figures is the metric. I mean, lots of them speak highly of Stalin, they have statues of him for fuck’s sake, and he made a deal with actual Hitler and fought alongside him to invade Poland. He wasn’t just a cosplayer.
According to Vyacheslav Likhachev of the Institut français des relations internationales, members of far-right (including neo-Nazi) groups played an important role on the pro-Russian side, arguably more so than on the Ukrainian side, especially during early 2014.[240][241] Members and former members of the National Bolshevik Party, Russian National Unity (RNU), Eurasian Youth Union, and Cossack groups participated in recruitment of the separatists.[240][242][243][244] A former RNU member, Pavel Gubarev, was founder of the Donbas People’s Militia and first “governor” of the Donetsk People’s Republic.[240][245] RNU is particularly linked to the Russian Orthodox Army,[240] one of a number of separatist units described as “pro-Tsarist” and “extremist” Orthodox nationalists.[246][240] ‘Rusich’ is part of the Wagner Group, a Russian mercenary group in Ukraine which has been linked to far-right extremism.[247][248] Afterward, the pro-Russian far-right groups became less important in Donbas and the need for Russian radical nationalists started to disappear.[240]
Only the side where it makes Ukrainians look bad in some way? For some reason?
BTW, I just gave $50 more to Ukraine via https://u24.gov.ua/ on the big “Donate Now” link in the top right. Hopefully they can buy some weapons with it, and keep playing Bandera songs if that’s what they want to do while they are blowing up Soviet-era equipment that’s trying to kill their people.
[Bandera] is a Ukrainian nationalist and Russia tries to use this person in their propaganda to say all Ukrainians are Nazis. They always try to scare the Russian people that Ukrainians are, culturally, all the same as Bandera
I’m afraid you are misinformed. Stalin and Hitler were Nazi mass murderers and best buddies.
Bandera, while not an angel, was imprisoned by Hitler and murdered by Stalin.
“Bandera was a nazi” was soviet and now ruzzian line, this statement is neither true nor false, but repeating it helps spreading ruzzian propaganda.
Eh? The OUN, under Bandera’s leadership, repeatedly and actively sought to alliance Nazi Germany during WWII. They formed militias with the express intent of enacting pogroms against Jewish citizens. Their political agenda was absolutely a fascist one. Bandera collaborated with the Nazis directly near the end of the war to fight the Soviets (though he was between a rock and a hard place here, I admit).
Bro. I have Ukrainian roots and I’m very confused about the Ukrainian stuff :)
All I know about Finland is that Soviets attacked it and, essentially, lost, so I guess Finland didn’t have much choice - it was the known evil of the Stalin and the who-knows-what with the Germans that weren’t even their neighbours.
I’m sure there were actual Nazis both in Finland and Ukraine, but I don’t see how Finland could have stayed independent and neutral in that situation.
But again, I know way too little about those parts.
so first things first. pogroms and volyn were terrible and seems like Ukraine is working through that.
the point i’m making here is that the binary “worked with nazis” leads nowhere, and we have to bring things into the historical perspective.
today we have the luxury of retrospective and know what fascism is and its dangers. which, ironically, doesn’t seem to stop us from sliding into it.
things were very different and slightly less binary in 1941. after all, the German American Bund (aka First US Nazi party) was dismantled only in December 1941. to make matters worse, germany, france and poland were all researching on the “re-settling” of jews to madagascar: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madagascar_Plan
what makes a difference for me is that while the main nazis (germans, italians, japanese and soviets) were all about “we are better, let’s enslave the neighbor monkeys”, ukrainian nationalists in that time were about fighting against occupation. polish, soviet, nazi and then again soviet. in that order.
they lost, and as usual with history, it’s written by the winners but the fact that (the modern nazi) ruzzia appears to have inherited fear of bandera from the (fairly nazi) soviet union, tells me that it’s worth looking at him not only from the ruzzian perspective.
I think that’s all valid and well-thought-through, and I perhaps misinterpreted your original message. It seemed to me you were saying that because he was imprisoned for several years by Nazi Germany, he was de facto not a fascist, which would be a very dubious claim.
Bandera was a genocidal nazi mass murderer. Very unfortunate choice of song.
Tell me you didn’t read the article, without telling me you didn’t read the article:
*Nervously trying to explain my swastika tattoo to a normal person*
“It’s just kind of a joke.” 😬
It’s called an irony shield.
I’m sure the statue of Bandera in Lviv is just a joke too.
Boy, you must be super pissed at Russia and critical of a lot of their people then. If support for arguably-neo-Nazi figures is the metric. I mean, lots of them speak highly of Stalin, they have statues of him for fuck’s sake, and he made a deal with actual Hitler and fought alongside him to invade Poland. He wasn’t just a cosplayer.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Nazism#Ukraine
Or is that side of it not a big deal?
Only the side where it makes Ukrainians look bad in some way? For some reason?
BTW, I just gave $50 more to Ukraine via https://u24.gov.ua/ on the big “Donate Now” link in the top right. Hopefully they can buy some weapons with it, and keep playing Bandera songs if that’s what they want to do while they are blowing up Soviet-era equipment that’s trying to kill their people.
When they tell you who they are, believe them.
GTFO you Russian shill
I’m afraid you are misinformed. Stalin and Hitler were Nazi mass murderers and best buddies. Bandera, while not an angel, was imprisoned by Hitler and murdered by Stalin.
“Bandera was a nazi” was soviet and now ruzzian line, this statement is neither true nor false, but repeating it helps spreading ruzzian propaganda.
Eh? The OUN, under Bandera’s leadership, repeatedly and actively sought to alliance Nazi Germany during WWII. They formed militias with the express intent of enacting pogroms against Jewish citizens. Their political agenda was absolutely a fascist one. Bandera collaborated with the Nazis directly near the end of the war to fight the Soviets (though he was between a rock and a hard place here, I admit).
@egrets @doo
What are your opinions on C.G.E. Mannerheim and Finland? The parallels to S. Bandera and Ukraine are very interesting!
Bro. I have Ukrainian roots and I’m very confused about the Ukrainian stuff :)
All I know about Finland is that Soviets attacked it and, essentially, lost, so I guess Finland didn’t have much choice - it was the known evil of the Stalin and the who-knows-what with the Germans that weren’t even their neighbours.
I’m sure there were actual Nazis both in Finland and Ukraine, but I don’t see how Finland could have stayed independent and neutral in that situation.
But again, I know way too little about those parts.
so first things first. pogroms and volyn were terrible and seems like Ukraine is working through that.
the point i’m making here is that the binary “worked with nazis” leads nowhere, and we have to bring things into the historical perspective.
today we have the luxury of retrospective and know what fascism is and its dangers. which, ironically, doesn’t seem to stop us from sliding into it.
things were very different and slightly less binary in 1941. after all, the German American Bund (aka First US Nazi party) was dismantled only in December 1941. to make matters worse, germany, france and poland were all researching on the “re-settling” of jews to madagascar: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madagascar_Plan
what makes a difference for me is that while the main nazis (germans, italians, japanese and soviets) were all about “we are better, let’s enslave the neighbor monkeys”, ukrainian nationalists in that time were about fighting against occupation. polish, soviet, nazi and then again soviet. in that order.
they lost, and as usual with history, it’s written by the winners but the fact that (the modern nazi) ruzzia appears to have inherited fear of bandera from the (fairly nazi) soviet union, tells me that it’s worth looking at him not only from the ruzzian perspective.
I think that’s all valid and well-thought-through, and I perhaps misinterpreted your original message. It seemed to me you were saying that because he was imprisoned for several years by Nazi Germany, he was de facto not a fascist, which would be a very dubious claim.
Nah, my original message was a quick braindump full of shortcuts. I’m glad you gave me the opportunity to formulate it orderly.