Can people learn about dictators that aren’t Adolf Hitler? Please?
You mean like the father of fascism, Mussolini?
Or Franco or Pinochet or Marcos or Saddam. Hell, put Tito on that list. Or any number of countries that had been subjugated by colonial empires, like India or the Philippines.
There are so many ways that oppressive governments work and ways that protest movements can work effectively against them. Germany 1933 has parallels to today, but it’s by no means an exact match, or even a very good match.
They actually are.
Non-violent resistances have historically had double the effectiveness of violent resistance movements. Violent resistances generally just get a bunch of people killed and only makes things worse.
The reason is simple. It’s a numbers game. Only a few psychopaths want violence and those few are easily dealt with by police. Sometimes they can especially troublesome and need to be dealt with by the military (LA isn’t one of those cases, Trump is just an idiot). It’s only the very rare case that a violent resistance topples a government and in those cases it’s just replacing one group of authoritarian psychos replacing another group. The French revolution ended up with a King being replaced by an Emperor after a whole lot of people died.
Meanwhile a non-violent movement can attract more numbers. You only need single digit percentages of the population to participate in things like general strikes to make an authoritarian regime collapse. But you aren’t getting those numbers with a violent resistance, people have families to think about and violent resistances are easily vilified. An authoritarian regime can exercise violence against a violent resistance and kill it. If an authoritarian regime uses violence against a non-violent resistance it’s clear to everyone who the villains are and an every broader number of people will participate and subtle and secretive ways.
History bears this out, a violent resistances don’t work unless there’s foreign backing and even then it’s unlikely to succeed. Non-violent resistances have double the probability of success. Non-violent resistances are just about psychopaths that want to burn things down coming up with bullshit rationalizations for it.
They work when the dictator knows the alternative is violence and they are outnumbered. Fun fact, MLK’s peaceful protests had armed security provided by an all black militia. They don’t teach that in schools because no government wants their people to think that the threat of violence works on government. That being said, it’s almost always best to try the peaceful options first.
Which ones, name them.
If not for Napoleon we’d still be all ruled by kings in Europe. You can argue the cost wasn’t worth it, but given you didn’t even give a famous textbook example of “peaceful protests work”, it’s safe to say your point is mostly BS.
After what happened in the 40s it’s fucking insulting to say that holding hands can save the world.
First thing coming to mind? East Germany 1989.
But see, that happened after fascism had already been fought off — so it doesn’t count.
/s , since many people here think of moving goalposts as a legitimate tactic for debate.
Well, technically, the Germans could have voted in a majority party on the left in the early 1930s and when that did fail they still could have just not voted for literal nazis.
So, Yeah. That was an option.
The vote was taken under gunpoint, quite famously, actually. Even then, the leaders of two of the leftmost political parties made a point of voting against it, making the rather valid point that the nazis were going to kill them anyway.
Proof?
So…the republicans were right all this time?
About what?
Little known fact that the Nazis were at last turned back at Stalingrad by the wittiest picket sign made in the Soviet Union. The sign, which used a mock spelling of Hitler’s name, simply read “A doof, Hitler”. Many historians believe that the German military never fully recovered from this humiliation.
Head cocked to the left.
Partial verbal wit in battle.
First point of attack.
Two. Eyes. Paralyse vocal cords with astute observation. Stop the speech centers.
Three. Got to be partially deaf. Shrewd retort to the ears.
Four. Finally, draw a facetious sign. Make it sharp.
Summary prognosis: Consciousness lost in 90 seconds
Martial efficacy: quarter of an hour at best.
Full faculty of recovery from psychological damage, unlikely.
Discombobulate
Fighting back is often the only choice you’re left with when Nazis gain power, but I do wish people would keep in mind there’s a difference between strategizing and being smart about how and when you fight back vs encouraging individuals to run full speed at the entire U.S. military with a bullseye on their forehead.
Also, if you’re bringing fascists and rule of law into this, hopefully you’re not wilfully ignoring how they gain power in the first place, or the fact that the Nazis literally used a legal expert that provided them with the legal shield they needed to carry out a genocide without ever breaking the law.
Or that one of Trump’s biggest defenders against the “crooked courts” that keep getting in his way, and leaving him with no choice but to act like a dictator, is a Harvard Constitutional Law professor who also just happens to be a Carl Schmitt fanboy.
Adrian Vermeule-OUR SCHMITTIAN ADMINISTRATIVE LAW
Common-Good Constitutionalism Is an Idea as Dangerous as They Come
This reminds me of a discussion I was having with Hexbear members on Lemmy recently.
I was suggesting that perhaps it makes sense for the UK to have nukes, for self-defence against other nuclear countries like Russia, China, and potentially even the US, given their unpredictable behaviour. People from Hexbear got angry at this suggestion. One of them suggested that it’s immoral to have nukes because nukes are “threatening civilians”.
Maybe the OP image of this thread is right though: megalomaniacs are not deterred by words, but they are deterred by weapons (such as nukes). Ukraine was invaded because they didn’t have enough deterrents. Iran is currently being bombed because I suppose they also didn’t have enough deterrents.
Bet they also think Russia should have nukes to stave off western imperialism
All weapons of war threaten civilians.
Potentially. I think it depends on how they’re used. If a country decides to completely disarm itself though, then it’s entirely possible that other countries will seek to invade and subjugate.
Ukraine actually gave their nukes on the promise of future safety. We all saw how that worked out.
Exactly. If Ukraine had their own nukes by the time of 2014, or if they had been part of NATO, then maybe Russia wouldn’t have invaded Ukraine.
“More nukes” is never a good solution to any problem
I think ideally there would be no nukes in the world, because they are dangerous. But nukes do exist. If western countries got rid of their nukes, then the remaining nuclear countries would be able to do what they like. “Surrender to our demands or we will nuke your cities.”
Perhaps not a good one, but still a solution, when a bear gets overly familiar.
Bear
Beets
Battlestar Galactica
what if your nuclear weapon collection is looking too small? How, other than getting more nukes, does on remedy this problem?
We will see in four years (or less depending if anything horrifically dramatic happens). But when violence has to happen, get ready to exercise your second amendment rights.
How is people being disappeared to concentration camp not already horrifically dramatic?
How is elected officials being arrested for asking for a warrant, or asking questions not already horrifically dramatic?
How is sending our own military and arresting civilians in L.A. not already horrifically dramatic?
Where the fuck is your line?
Unfortunately, there is plausible deniability that allow the US government to do what they’re doing. In spite of some rulings which tell Trump administration that they are wrong, there are still some actions where they have legal backing, moral or not.
Legal =/= moral.
That’s just how the world works I’m afraid.
I’m sorry, I guess my initial reply was too many words to be understood fully. So I’ll be more succinct.
**Something horrifically dramatic has already happened, it’s already time for us to use our 2A rights for communal self defense. **
Otherwise I agree with what you just said, but I felt like you missed my point, so I wanted to say it in no uncertain terms.
I understand what you mean. What I am saying is that people are overlooking because any perceived red lines haven’t been crossed yet.
Why wait? Fascism is here, now! Punch a Nazi today!!
We don’t have to like it, but it’s undeniable that cops treat protestors in plated vests with rifles different than they treat protestors in tshirts with signs…
Armed minorities are harder to oppress.
The reason Cali has strict gun laws is ole Ronny Reagan got scared when he saw Black men with rifles marching in formation.
protestors in plated vests with rifles
that can be done peacefully, doesn’t really support OP’s point
Well, it mostly depends on what the protestors are protesting.
And this is why I am a proud gun owning liberal.
Armed minorites are harder to oppress.
Didn’t the gun laws in California happen specifically after black Panthers open carried near a town hall?
Could be misremembering
You are not misremembering.
Ya, and this is where they really started to fix the “armed minorities harder to oppress” bug…by making sure the gun possession of POC happened within their constraints. IE gang violence, drug war, commodity fetishism, rugged individualism all to replace grass roots organization and useful gun ownership. YN with the never ending need for for new NIKES, armed with the strap and slinging rock for cash is preferable to armed class conscious community organizers.
I’m a proud gun owning leftist and please don’t confuse me with a liberal
Good for you. Nobody asked.
I, for one, appreciate the distinction! 😃
Nobody cares.
Did someone hurt you?
Edit: checked your bio. Someone definitely hurt you.
Anti-liberal leftists (hereforafter referred to as “leftists” with air quotes) can suck my dick. They are one of the reasons we have the fascist in office.
So I guess they did hurt me. They hurt all of us. And are laughing in accelerationist glee about it. Fuck “leftists”.
Are you having a stroke, or is this one of those ““they are responsible for everything bad”” type of thing, where “they” is whoever you happen to want to send to Poland?
Or do you really believe that every single person who sat this election out is a leftist? It’s difficult to tell whether you’re hateful or just very dumb.
::Watches republicans throw the country into turmoil over 30 years with wars, economic collapses, and civil unrest through fascism::
“Goddamn leftists!”
Oh you sweet summer child.
oh, they’ll confiscate that soon….
3d printer and some pipe.
If the guy with the splatoon gun can kill the Japanese president, Americans can make a gun at home for sure.
wasn’t the united health CEO is also killed by a 3d printed gun?
Yep
I can confirm you can make a shotgun pretty easily with a trip to the hardware store and as long as you properly rust proof it, it’ll last quite some time. Especially if you have a way to purchase thicker than normal wall piping. If you don’t have a drill press and welder already, it’ll be a little expensive.
Partially 3d printed aemi-auto is slightly harder, but again can confirm quite reliable if done right, and accurate as fuck if you properly rifle the barrel.
Myanmar has done quite well with the FGC9…
they can try
Democrats really love to take guns from people.
Democratic jurisdictions are usually under may issue laws, meaning, the police can use descretion to deny you a permit, and a permit is required in order to carry a gun.
The. Fucking. Cops. Have the authority to fucking deny you the ability to defend yourself.
Like… what?
Sure, lets let those pigs trample over your constitutional rights. Can we primary all those anti-gun dems?
Edit: So the Supreme Court struck down the most of the “May Issue” laws in 2022. Now its mostly “Shall Issue”. Ironically, the liberal judges wanted to uphold those laws, while the right wing dipshits judges ruled to struck it down. Broken Clock, twice a day, you know.
The Dems are doing their part to facilitate the oligarchs that give both parties their marching orders
And if you see someone being taken away by fascists, make sure you and everyone else watching dont do anything except film it to post on social media. Maybe if you’re feeling adventurous you can tell the brown shirts what theyre doing is bad, just make sure you dont do anything to actually stop them.
There are more guns than people in the US. Guns don’t stop fascism, if they did we would not be here now. Furthermore, the majority of 2nd amendment gunholes are ready to support ICE not fight them.
This meme is stupid on so many levels.
“One side has a lot of guns and supports fascism, therefore the other side should disarm, I am very smart.”
Fascism can’t continue if the fascists are dead. You gotta fight smart.
I’m not sure the meme is the stupid one here, you’ve just completely misunderstood the entire thing.
Ah yes war mobilized state of Germany with the support of majority of Germans behind it famously known to be stopped by violent protests.
Exactly, it was the peaceful protests that did it. 🙄
Why We’re Organizing No Kings Protests on Saturday–A king is only a king if we bow down
For the would-be dictator, success depends on projecting power and creating an aura of inevitability. They need you to believe that Trump is the new normal, that the MAGA movement will be in power for the long haul, that the only rational move is to go along, keep your head down, and protect your own interests.
In short, it requires a countless number of people in a countless number of places to do something that the Trump regime doesn’t want them to do, or to NOT do something the Trump regime wants them to do. That’s how we shake off the aura of inevitability and halt the autocratic breakthrough.
For that to happen, people need to feel like we’re part of something bigger. We need to understand that we’re part of a movement. We need to feel like we will win.
https://www.howwefightback.com/p/why-were-organizing-no-kings-protests
I sure felt better at Saturday’s protest. 2,000 people there, in the reddest part of Florida, and that wasn’t the main protest.
Just kept saying, “Thank god thank god. Had no idea there were so many sane people around here.”
And BTW, I conceal carried my Colt .45. What a heavy PITA. The gun pictured (Beretta 92FS) is my next pistol!
I’m glad for your sake the event remained nonviolent.
There was one other event where a MAGhat tried to draw a weapon, a peacekeeper with a weapon fired at them, and THEY (the peacekeeper) killed an innocent person in the crossfire.
So while that’s a better turnout than a mass shooting, I fervently hope for tensions not to escalate.
That is one of the biggest powers of a protest. It lets people know they are not alone. When we know we have backup, we are a lot more willing to act. If enough people act together, even giants fall.
